dts 5.1 vs dts+neo:6

WaltV · 02-19-2005, 12:18 PM

When I play a dts 5.1 movie in my H/K AVR330, the audio will default to dts+neo:6.

I have a 7.1 channel layout. But I was wondering if dts+neo:6 was a matrix of all 6 channels or is it discrete 5.1 plus a matrixed 6th channel?

I guess my underlying question is: with 5.1, the disks original encoding being discrete, will dts+neo:6 be a step up or a step down in sound quality? (And by sound quality I am thinking separation of channels, the surround experience, and sound detail).

Sorry if I'm not so clear - I've been trying to word this post for days but I'm afraid I have a hard time describing it.

Thanks for the input,

Walt

WesleyHester · 02-19-2005, 01:49 PM

Your post is clear and you have a good question. I'll have to think about it though. I believe Neo:6 is for both 2-channel and 5.1-channel sources but I'll have to confirm. I've actually never have though of trying it with DTS 5.1 encoded DVDs. I do like the idea of using my rear surrounds more though. If Neo:6 does like you mentioned, I would think only the rears would be a matrix of the surround information and everything else would still be discrete. I'll have to check out my system and get on my computer at home to find out for sure though. Typically, I've only used DTS for DTS 5.1 sources and my receiver defaults to it and never Neo:6.

Wait...
Here is DTS's Neo:6 information from their site:

Neo:6 PDF

Looks like I was wrong, Neo:6 appears to be meant for enhancing 2-channel sources only. Now I'm not sure why your receiver would default to it with a true DTS 5.1 digital signal.

Lewis Besze · 02-19-2005, 07:49 PM

Yeah this is a sort of "anomoly" with some receivers,as Neo was meant for 2 ch only and most hardware cannot overlay it over DTS 5.1.Having said that DTS "quietly" updated and revised Neo several times without much fanfare,don't know if the PDF above is a representative of that or only the original one.

WesleyHester · 02-20-2005, 12:20 AM

Lewis Besze, thanks for the info. I didn't even know about the revisions.

Brad E · 02-20-2005, 03:21 AM

This is just what H/K recievers display when playing a 5.1 format in a 7.1 setup.
If you turn your rear speakers off, it will display only dts.
It also displays Dolby D + Prologic (or something like that anyway) when playing a 5.1 DD track in a 7.1 setup.

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WaltV · 02-20-2005, 05:42 AM

Thanks for the thoughts guys, I really appreciate it. I should add that yes, I can change the sound field to be "just" 5.1 dts when I see its gone to neo:6, then I assume its playing the discrete dts track.

I'm still wondering: so if neo 6 is meant to send 2 channels to 6 channels, is this what is happening when the avr says neo:6? Is it using the stereo track thereby "guessing" at the surround effects? Or is it actually using the 5.1 track and just creating a rear channel?

Lewis Besze · 02-20-2005, 07:38 AM

Quote:

I'm still wondering: so if neo 6 is meant to send 2 channels to 6 channels, is this what is happening when the avr says neo:6? Is it using the stereo track thereby "guessing" at the surround effects? Or is it actually using the 5.1 track and just creating a rear channel?

While I still don't know if your receiver actually engages Neo or just "says" it does,but when the DTS ES[Matrix] and DD EX decoding takes place, the side surrounds[and back as well] will no longer be discrete, only the front 3 channels remains as such.Neo can't do any better then that,it's clear from the PDF above.

Brad E · 02-20-2005, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Or is it actually using the 5.1 track and just creating a rear channel?

This is exactly what is happening when your reciever displays DTS+NEO6, or Dolby D+PLII.
It's just H/K's way of telling you that the 6th channel is matrixed.

When playing DD EX or DTS ES discreet formats, the reciever will display Dolby D EX and DTS ES.

Lewis Besze · 02-21-2005, 06:06 PM

Quote:

This is exactly what is happening when your reciever displays DTS+NEO6, or Dolby D+PLII. It's just H/K's way of telling you that the 6th channel is matrixed.

No it isn't! Only the three front channels remains discrete.

Brad E · 02-21-2005, 08:00 PM

I know what you are getting at Lewis, but I disagree with your statement. Just because some of the sound is diverted to the rears, doesn't make the surrounds any less discrete. To me anyway.

FeisalK · 02-21-2005, 10:17 PM

i think "discrete" here is by definition when there is an actual signal in that channel, not a signal derived from info in other channels (matrixed).

David Judah · 02-21-2005, 11:06 PM

Quote:

No it isn't! Only the three front channels remains discrete

I never really thought about it when applying back surround decoding to non-EX/ES material, but it doesn't make sense to me that you lose the discrete rears because you're deriving a 6th matrixed channel.

If you are applying DPL IIx to a discrete 5.1 soundtrack, all 4 rears aren't considered matrixed after decoding--only the 2 back surrounds are. It seems to me it's the same way with what we are talking about here with DTS+Neo 6, except only 1 additional matrixed channel is being created, instead of 2.

DJ