[tonyKwok]

hello everyone,

i'm not sure if this is the right forum to post this thread. I wanted to know if anyone here has dealt w/ this retailer before. I'm thinking of purchasing a Denon AVR-1905 from them and i wanted to know if they're reputable or not. They have the cheapest price out there. But i'm afraid I might be getting a refurbished item instead of a brand new receiver.

thanks

[JimMIT]

I've never purchased anything from parkaveelectronics. But, I have an opinion to offer anyway, for what it's worth.

If you go to their website, you will see that they advertise many well-known brands (Denon, Yamaha, Harmon Kardon, Onkyo, Pioneer) at very low prices. If you go to the respective websites for these brands, you will see that none of them list parkaveelectronics as an authorized dealer for their products. That means that, regardless of what parkaveelectronics says on their website, these manufacturers will not honor any warranty for units sold by parkaveelectronics.

And just what does parkaveelectronics say on their website about warranties? They say:

"ALL items are Brand New, Factory Sealed. ALL items include all the manufacturer's supplied accessories and a USA warranty."

What does "USA warranty" mean? I don't know what it means, but I can tell you that Denon will not honor the factory warranty on a unit sold by an unauthorized dealer.

On their website, parkaveelectronics also says:

"Please contact manufacturer prior to requesting a return of an item to parkaveelectronics.com-direct. In most cases, the manufacturer has a quicker turn-around time, and prefers the customer to deal with them directly. You do not need a RA number from us, to return a defective or damaged item directly to the manufacturer. In most cases, they will be able to replace the defective items quickly and free of any charges, under the manufacturer's warranty."

Given the fact that these manufacturers, i.e., Denon, Yamaha, HK, etc., want their products sold only through retailers specifically authorized by them and will not honor warranties for products sold by unauthorized dealers, what do you think Denon will do if you contact them regarding a unit purchased from an unauthorized dealer? In my opinion, the above statements by parkaveelectronics are pure hogwash.

This company is one of several located in Brooklyn, New York which, either by direct language or by suggestion, purport to be authorized dealers for several audio equipment companies, when if fact they are not. If you do some research on the Internet, you can find many horror stories of folks who purchased what they thought was a brand new piece of audio gear from an unauthorized dealer only to discover, after they've paid by credit card, that they actually purchased either a refurbished unit, a counterfeit unit, or one which has had the serial number obliterated. And no warranty.

In my opinion, buying audio gear from an unauthorized dealer is akin to buying pharmaceutical drugs from a guy on a street corner. You just don't know what you're going to get.

I'm not saying that if you purchase a Denon AVR-1905 from parkaveelectronics that you will have a bad experience. It's possible you'll get a genuine, brand new Denon AVR-1905. I do know that if you do, that unit has been diverted from legitimate sales channels in some way. In any event, it will not come with a warranty.

There are a lot of folks who have purchased audio gear from unauthorized dealers and are very happy, mainly because of the money they saved. There are a lot who are unhappy because they didn't get what they thought they were getting. Personally, I'd rather pay more money and be confident that I'm getting a brand new, factory sealed unit with a warranty that's backed by the manufacturer.

[Adil M]

Jim you are close to the scenario.
Brandnames try to entice "dealer" relationships by placing companies as authorized on their websites, supposedly promoting more business for them.
I deal certain products and I resell others. The companies I resell probably expected a large opening order and a certain amount of equipment purchased per year. If I do not think this can be met I choose to resell rather than deal them.
Since, I resell "Brandname" I do not get placed as an authorized seller on their webpage.
This of course provides a grey area.
Is my reseller actually going through the proper channels?
Is my warrany valid?
I have a way to prove this everytime to the satisfaction of my customers. I have experience w/ the reps of most brandnames I carry (~100's).
If I deal the unit there could be other concerns like mandatory demos, equipment support, etc.

People can purchase from rockbottom internet sellers all they want, but I have already seen the tide changing due to lack of any support or knowledge. IMO, another ~2 years and things will balance out.

[JimMIT]

Adil - I see by your website that you are an A/V installer. I recently built a new house and had it pre-wired (structured wiring, alarm, audio, etc.). During the process, I discovered that most audio manufacturers do not list A/V installers on their websites as authorized dealers even though, in most cases, they are authorized -- usually by purchasing directly from one of the manufacturer's regional distributors. For example, my installer is not listed as an authorized dealer for Denon but I learned through the authorized distributor that the units he installs are warranted by Denon.

You know, I don't have a huge problem with unauthorized audio e-tailers who sell brand name products (though the ways in which they obtain them are sometimes questionable) as long as they clearly state on their website that they are not an authorized dealer and that the manufacturer will not warranty the product. There are some audio e-tailers who do this; many of them offer off-the-shelf warranties by Philips or Mack. That's fine; they're not attempting to con anyone. I do have a huge problem with the unauthorized audio e-tailers who "trick" unsuspecting customers into thinking that they are an authorized dealer and that their audio products carry a manufacturer's warranty. To my way of thinking, if they'll do that, then they'll sell you a counterfeit product or a refurbished one as new.

There are many who are not all that concerned about warranties and more concerned about price. For them, perhaps an unauthorized dealer is an avenue. But if one is concerned about manufacturers warranties, the safest thing to do is to contact the manufacturer (or his main U.S. distributor) and run the name of the dealer by them. They'll be able to say for sure if the dealer is authorized or not.

[Adil M]

Fully agreed. I was just trying to clarify what I consider to be an important part for the reseller side.
I am more on the sales side, but am often pulled into the install side. I really enjoy this hobby despite the growing number of manipulative customers out there.

[eddieZEN]

tony,

Two places I'd look: the Better Business Bureau website (often very lacking, but sometimes will warn you off from egregiously bad dealers) and resellerratings.com

Also if you do use Froogle or PriceGrabber they usually post merchant ratings. As with all Internet anonymous ratings you never can tell how many of them are shills, but they can help weed out the really bad dealers at least.

[tonyKwok]

thank you for all the replies everyone. The points you guys mentioned about a potential customer like myself about to spend money on what may be a new receiver but ending up w/ a refurbished one is definitely probable from a unauthorized e-tailer. I don't mind if they advertise the fact that the unit will be a refurbished one up front on their website, but if many e-tailers are thinking they can trick potential customers into thinking they're paying for a new unit while getting a B-stock, then I rather stay away. I will continue to do some more research before making my purchase.

But in the meantime, if anyone has dealt with any reputable e-tailers for gettting a new Denon receiver (besides the authorized ones), please give me their names.

Thank you all.

[eddieZEN]

Jr.com is one of the most reputable with usually the best prices on the Internet. You can often call in and haggle them down since they have a pricematch policy, too!

Vanns.com is also good but pricey, same with Crutchfield.com which has really excellent service and their website and reps provide a lot of helpful info for free.

Buy.com has very good prices but don't know if they carry Denon.

Other good ones are onecall.com and hifi.com

For openly refurbished look at accessories4less.com and ecost.com