Chu Gai

Stereophool has actually gotten a bit better IMO.
So we're comparing two different purchases. Think they were both mastered the same?

John Robert

The tough question is, if the "perceived" improvement of my new tweak enhances my enjoyment of my system, was the purchase worth it?

Jerry Parker

Ive come to the conclusion that MOST components/tweaks/etc. that have people arguing that there would be no possible audible difference with or without them are probably not going to make a difference.

For instance, I don't think I've heard anyone say two pairs of speakers sound the same

imported_Craig Morris

Yep. Comparing old REM cd's to the new Best of.
Not sure on the mastering... I think the label said "newly remastered in high-resolution"... or something to that effect.

I guess maybe the full quality would only show through on something recorded in high-rez originally? I dunno... I never said it was scientific.

Chu Gai

The point I wanted to make Craig is not that there weren't audible differences nor that you had a distinct preference for one or the other. Rather it wasn't so much the medium as it was that the mastering was different.
You see, with respect to say Sony and SACD, Sony never ever ever created two versions that were the same. Hence they never allowed a scenario wherebye people could do a real fair comparison. In a notable example, the DSOTM release, which is quite nice, people have taken various songs and run them through programs like Cool-Edit and found that portions of the songs (CD layer) have been recorded too hot and hence clipped.
So if we've got two distinct recordings, how is anyone able to tell if one medium is better in some audible way than another? The playing field just isn't leveled.

Brian Fellmeth

Chu Gai :


That was worth repeating. That is the reason naysayers refute and/or redicule voodoo posts.

Yogi

The truth is not out there but within you.

Rich Wenzel

Chu,

I wasn't saying that this was a DBT, however, I should have elaborated more. Most people think that DBT's are the best, this was not as good as a DBT. I am saying that DBT's are not 100% conclusive. That's all.

in response to:

If none of this stuff makes any difference, the only things we should look at are features and reliability...
Says who? What about...
ease of use
service
availability
resale value
appearance
preferences for a certain methodology
status
bragging rights
exclucivity
warranty
add whatever you want


my point of reliability would incorporate service and warranty

my point of features would include appearance and ease of use.

As for bragging rights, its hard to brag about two things that perform exatlyt he same. There is no subjectivity to it. If that's the case, status goes away (which seems kind of redundant with bragging rights) and for that matter so does exclusivity.

Im not sure what you mean by preference for a certain methodology.

in response to:

if that is the case, how does this industry exist?
Same way lots of industries exist like cosmetics, shampoos, bottled water, sugar, salt...marketing and advertising with hopefully bona fide science making sense of it all.


there are real measurable differences between using different types of shampoos, cosmetics, and water. If I use certain types of shampoos, my scalp itches, i dont wear cosmetics, but i have seen women's skin react differently, and on water, well, poland spring has higher levels of arsenic, so i dont consider this at all comparable to saying that there is no discernible audio difference between amps, cables, etc.

I have no opinion on sugar and salt, and am not aware of any big bragging rights, status, etc that get from owning one brand versus others. Nor of any magazines, forums, or specialty shops offering that there is a large difference.

In respnose to:

why do i bother with anything but the cheapest stuff?
Because of items that I listed above for starters. Because you're human. Because as your disposable income goes up so does your appreciation or desire for things that reflect upon it. Would Emeril serve his creations on Chinet and Wallmart plates?
But consider for the moment the persons who post here and elsewhere and they're looking for a soup to nuts system for say $2k. Maybe less. Now if he drops $200 on interconnects when he could've done it for $50 and he drops $400 for some Monster Power Conditioner when he could've done $50 for an Isobar and he drops $600 on a CD player when he could've got a pretty decent all-in-one for say $200, then there ain't a hell of a lot left over for speakers and a receiver is there? What about some prudent thinking here? He's left with $800 going the 'everything matters route and with the other approach, he's got $1700. Do some careful refurb receiver shopping, maybe a used SVS and he's got a pretty fair amount of cash to drop on some nice speakers. Maybe enough for a case of beer and pizza to have his friends over.
When you've got tons of money, you just don't care anymore. When you're on a budget, with a mortgage, kids, rising taxes, planning for retirement, things get a little more real.

Since I don't agree with you said previously, I can't agree with this. I have radioshack cabling/interconnects and some cheaper stuff i got off the net, such as AR. I was considering a $4k amp and was going to use the same cabling. Why? cause a while ago, me and 2 friends used 3 different interconnects and couldnt tell the difference in a SBT. Also, i bought my maranct 4000ose and rotel 955 and compared it to a cheap technics and a my denon dvd player...We couldnt tell the difference in a SBT either. I have no intention of upgrading my cd player or my wiring (unless i need longer runs, which case i will go the cheapest route). So, rather unsuccinctly, why would I buy anything but the cheapest stuff?

Rich

B&W DM605S2 x 2 & LCR6S2, Rotel RSX 1055 & RC955, Denon DV 1600, Marantz 4000OSE, Panasonic PT56wx51 (I think, who cares, its a TV)

\"Aren\'t you going to kiss her goodbye?\"
\"No.\"

Chu Gai

Everybody has their own reasons why Rich. Maybe you just got a sensitive scalp

Rich Wenzel

im balding by day, i definitely have a sensitive scalp

going to the HT shows this week?

I'll be there.

Rich

B&W DM605S2 x 2 & LCR6S2, Rotel RSX 1055 & RC955, Denon DV 1600, Marantz 4000OSE, Panasonic PT56wx51 (I think, who cares, its a TV)

\"Aren\'t you going to kiss her goodbye?\"
\"No.\"

KrishnaS

Chu,

Naive question here ok so you guys please don't jump on me! I think I understand from your post and all the others following about what's NOT important in a system. I am in the middle of reading Nousaine's 10 lies and that should give me more information. Now, what I don't get is what IS important? What should a person on a budget focus on? I see what you are all saying about what's not important how about some discussion of the flip side and what IS important.

Not to digress too much but here is the system I am trying to build - am I on the right track according to you and Nousaine?

I have the Energy Take 5 system with a 8" sub.
I just picked up a refurbed HK AVR 525 receiver
I also bougth the Pioneer 563a universal player that is highly rated EXCEPT for the bas smanagement which my receiver can handle anyway.
I have some decent - not overpriced - 12 gauge wire.
I'm going with Radio Shack gold interconnects and cables becuase I truly don't see how cables can affect a system - expecially a budget one like mine.

What should be my upgrade path? My thoughts are that I add some good front speakers moving my satellites to side surround duties. Then maybe add a used SVS. After a year with THAT system maybe add an outboard amp and even better front speakers. Down the road add a dedicated prepro.

Am I on the right track? I know from your posts what not to focus on - am i focused on the right things? Am I right in assuming that the most important things in a system are the speakers and the quality of the receiver/seperates?

Last question Chu - and all the other "sceptics" yet "audiophiles" could you post what equipment you use so I can see what a "budget" yet good system looks like.

I apologize for the rambling post. I am truly fqascinated by this stuff and want to learn more.

KS

Marty Neudel

>I think you already know what they are<

I sure do: a great performance hall and a set of even greater performers.

Marty