KyleGS

H/K Bass management questions

I recently acquired the AVR 510. I'm somewhat confused on the bass management of this unit. The manual isn't as clear as I would like it.

You have the option of running the mains as lg or small (obviously). From here it lets you choose subwoofer x-over freq. based on the lg/small setting for the mains.

If mains set to small ---> you can x-over @ 80 or 100hz
If mains set to lg ---> you can x-over @ 40 or 60hz

NOW--> my mains will go cleanly down to ~35 hz. I'd like to x-over them at 60hz. BTW- I've got an external amp for the mains.

IF I set the mains to large and use the 60hz x-over for the sub will this also high pass the mains @ 60hz?

I'm really asking- does the unit x-over the sub (low pass) and mains (high pass) at the same freq?

OR

Does large=fullrange and small=high pass @ 100hz?

I hope my question isn't confusing...

KyleGS

anyone?

Kelana

Hmm..maybe your question are confusing

Doug Brewster

"IF I set the mains to large and use the 60hz x-over for the sub will this also high pass the mains @ 60hz?

I'm really asking- does the unit x-over the sub (low pass) and mains (high pass) at the same freq?"

Are you asking if the mains will still output the frequencies at 60hz and lower (down to their 35hz capability)?

If so, the answer is yes if you choose Large for your "Left/Right", and "Sub LFE+L/R". The low frequencies will be output by both the mains and Sub according to their respective abilities. Setting the sub x-over to 60hz will cause it to produce all the bass information from 60hz down, and the mains will produce all the frequencies of which they are capable.

If you choose Large for your "Left/Right", and "Sub(LFE)", your mains will produce all the bass of which they are capable, but the Sub will only produce the Low Frequency Effects soundtrack available from a digital source.

All of this information is available in your 510 manual on pages 22 and 23. If you don't have a manual, I suggest you go to harmankardon.com and highlight Product Support, then click Owners Manuals, then click the down arrow on the box and highlight Heritage Models, click the down arrow on Choose a Heritage Model, and click on AVR 510, wait for it to load, then print it out.

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KyleGS

I understand. But when lg. is selected for the mains, sub x-over is at 60hz I know this will low-pass the sub @ 60hz but will it also HIGH-PASS the mains @ 60hz or will they run FULLRANGE.

imported_Baldemar Garcia

Large speakers run full-range. If you want to make sure, look for a post by me detailing the results of my bass management test for the AVR320. Look back to last December, hopefully it's still around.

JohnSer

When set to Large, the mains are NOT high passed. They receive the full range signal. I think it is the same in my 520, but never used a test disk to varify.

JohnS

Doug Brewster

"I understand. But when lg. is selected for the mains, sub x-over is at 60hz I know this will low-pass the sub @ 60hz but will it also HIGH-PASS the mains @ 60hz or will they run FULLRANGE."

Obviously you didn't understand, or I didn't.

"...I know this will low-pass the sub @ 60hz but will it also HIGH-PASS the mains @ 60hz or will they run FULLRANGE."

The answer depends on your Subwoofer setting, NOT your x-over setting. If you set your subwoofer to "SUB", and your x-over to 60hz all of the frequencies below 60hz will be sent to the sub. All of the frequencies above 60hz will be passed on to the mains. They will NOT run FULLRANGE

"...if you choose Large for your "Left/Right", and "Sub LFE+L/R". The low frequencies will be output by both the mains and Sub according to their respective abilities. Setting the sub x-over to 60hz will cause it to produce all the bass information from 60hz down, and the mains will produce all the frequencies of which they are capable." The mains WILL run FULLRANGE.
If you choose Large for your "Left/Right", and "Sub(LFE)", your mains will produce all the bass of which they are capable." The mains WILL STILL run FULLRANGE, but the SUB WILL ONLY PRODUCE the LFE (the Low Frequency Effects soundtrack) and ONLY IF it is available, and ONLY from a digital source.

I believe this should answer the question. What I find confusing is your use of "high-pass". Perhaps that is a technically correct term, but it is one with which I'm not familiar.
I believe I've figured out what the intention of your question is, and answered it. If not, try again but further clarify (or avoid altogether) the word High-pass.

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JohnSer

Doug, from my interpretation of reading the 520 manual, I don't think this is correct. I didn't go check the 510 manual, but pretty sure it is the same. This came as a surprise to me, when I first read it, because you would think that it would be the same freq. The manual specificly talks about matching the 40 or 60 hz crossover to the capabilities of your speakers. It doesn't say that it limits freq below that, to the mains.

Even when you set them to small, the manual doesn't say at which frequency it high-passes the mains. It kinda implys it is 100hz. The 80 or 100 hz cross-over setting is discussed in the same way, matching to the natural capabilities of the speaker.

I think I remember someone doing an extensive test, and posting the results here, some time ago. But, couldn't find the one I wanted in a search.

If time permits, I can do a quick test tonight. I will feed a 40Hz tone, and with all the same settings, just change the crossover setting from none, to 40, to 60, and take spl readings. Sub will be powered off. If my interpretation is correct, all reading should be close to the same.

PS: Highpass means that frequencies above a given frequency will be sent/passed to the channel. Low pass means, frequencies below a given frequency will be sent/passed.

JohnS

Doug Brewster

"If time permits, I can do a quick test tonight. I will feed a 40Hz tone, and with all the same settings, just change the crossover setting from none, to 40, to 60, and take spl readings. Sub will be powered off. If my interpretation is correct, all reading should be close to the same."

Would be great if you could. What I understand in the manual (and the manual is not very clear) would indicate that, when in the sub mode, the low frequencies are sent to the sub and not to the mains.

"Even when you set them to small, the manual doesn't say at which frequency it high-passes the mains."

Agreed, but what, then, would be the difference between "Sub LFE+L/R" and "Sub". LFE is clearly defined. It would seem to imply that the "Sub" would only highpass (and thanks for the definition. It means what I thought it did) those frequencies above the cross-over while Sub LFE+L/R would send all information to L/R and the information below the cross-over to the subwoofer. Maybe it means the subwoofer will get LFE soundtrack information, sub crossover information, and the L/R channels will get all information (except LFE)????
Your testing should solve the puzzle. I'm very curious now.

In any case, we agree that if mains are set to Large, then they will receive even the information below the crossover setting and that was (as best I could understand it) KyleGS's original question.

By the way, I also have a 520. I recently upgraded to a 525 but am taking it back. It's my second one. The first was damaged in shipping and this one has a distortion in the center channel that is nerve-wracking. It processes surround materials with much better definition and clarity than the 520, but that center channel!! I hate distortion and it is harsh, blaring, and annoying. I thought I had it fixed by altering the delay settings, but it out-foxed me. Seems it's more determined than I can overcome.

One final thought, what the heck happens to the sub-crossover information for the surrounds? Just sent to them?

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