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10-13-2003, 03:31 PM
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#31 of 45 
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Member
Location: Oakville, ON
Join Date: Sep 2003
Local Time: 07:01 PM
Local Date: 11-18-2008
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DSP modes are fun to play with... I did when I got my new Yamaha.
Play it back the way it was mixed.
The people who record/mix/master know what they are doing. That's why they are doing it.
simplicity is genius...
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10-13-2003, 05:46 PM
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#32 of 45
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Local Time: 12:01 AM
Local Date: 11-19-2008
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There's a difference between Yamaha's "DSP modes" and true ambience extraction ala Trifield or Logic7.
Why hear it the way the mixers heard it... why not hear it the way it sounded in the original venue?
(Of course, I'm talking about live acoustical music on a stage or in a concert hall... fabricated multitrack studio mixes are another story entirely, there is no "reference" to speak of, so whatever floats your boat...)
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10-13-2003, 05:53 PM
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#33 of 45
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I respect your respectfullness. 
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They can hardly get discrete recordings to sound decent in multichannel.
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I agree... mostly because the mixing engineers are having too much fun "playing" with the multichannel format, and aren't using it effectively to create a nice reverberant field. Not the fault of the technology, but rather the people using it.
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Hocus Pocus DSP's are nowhere near true to the source.
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Incorrect. Good ambience exctraction is more true to the source than pure 2-channel. It's a fundamental result of the way sound interacts with your room.
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DPLII, Hall, Church 2, Logic 7, Drama, Jazz Club, Five channel surround, you can have them all..............
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Erm... I'll just take the Logic7! Got one lying around you can spare?.. I've been wating for a sweet deal to pop up on an MC8.  |
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10-14-2003, 12:58 AM
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#34 of 45
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Local Time: 07:01 PM
Local Date: 11-18-2008
Posts: 556
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well, you can get logic 7 fairly cheaply, in an H&K 
maybe its my setup, but im not in-love with dlp2 for music...or maybe its just not what i am used to....
Rich
B&W DM605S2 x 2 & LCR6S2, Rotel RSX 1055 & RC955, Denon DV 1600, Marantz 4000OSE, Panasonic PT56wx51 (I think, who cares, its a TV)
\"Aren\'t you going to kiss her goodbye?\"
\"No.\"
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10-14-2003, 08:59 AM
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#35 of 45
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Local Time: 07:01 PM
Local Date: 11-18-2008
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Someone may have already addressed this but,if you can't play multi ch sacd,dvd-a on your set up that would be a drag.I never listen to 5/7 ch stereo or any dsp,high rez audio is on a whole different level.If a system does not WOW you with dvd-a,sacd,2 or more ch, you need to change systems.
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10-14-2003, 09:48 AM
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#36 of 45
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Join Date: Jul 2002
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Good ambience exctraction is more true to the source than pure 2-channel.
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But isn't that dependent on your room acoustics/ambience, which is different for everyone's listening room? Then how can a universal ambience extraction scheme be true to the source in every listening room? I can agree to it being true to the source only in the recording studio. When it is played in your or someone else's room it loses its truthfulness and no matter what mode you listen to (stereo or L7) is remarkably different from the true recording. So then it just becomes a matter of subjective preference.
JMHO.
The truth is not out there but within you.
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10-14-2003, 10:29 AM
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#37 of 45
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Join Date: Mar 2001
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Good ambience exctraction is more true to the source than pure 2-channel.
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I can agree to it being true to the source only in the recording studio.
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Doesn't music recorded in a studio lack ambience due to the acoustically dead nature of studios? I find that I only care for live multichannel music that was recorded correctly from the get go, and properly mixed( ambient sound only in the rear channels). |
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10-14-2003, 10:52 AM
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#38 of 45
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Even live multichannel music cannot sound true to the venue recording when played in your or my room. I just cant comprehend the 'being more true to...than...' phrase with a universal ambience extraction scheme. I think it just boils down to 'what ever foalts your boat' .
I just know that its easier to discern differences between components in 2 channel listening rather than any multichannel format be it music or HT. So when auditioning components it behooves us to listen only in 2-ch mode. If we were auditioning different surround modes (trifield, L7, DPLIIM etc.) then one can listen to these modes, but like the orignal poster said its not much of a difference between high end and low end stuff in purely multichannel listening and I totally agree with him.
Over and out.
The truth is not out there but within you.
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10-14-2003, 11:00 AM
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#39 of 45
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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But isn't that dependent on your room acoustics/ambience, which is different for everyone's listening room? Then how can a universal ambience extraction scheme be true to the source in every listening room? I can agree to it being true to the source only in the recording studio. When it is played in your or someone else's room it loses its truthfulness and no matter what mode you listen to (stereo or L7) is remarkably different from the true recording. So then it just becomes a matter of subjective preference.
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I don't follow your logic at all here. The purpose of multichannel systems is to remove your room from the equation as much as is possible, and in that sense the uniformity of multichannel environments will be much better and much more predictable than a "proper" two-channel setup.
Ambience extraction/multichannel setups are reliant on a fairly damped room... and that is the way it should be. Two channel playback is reliant on a rather more live room, with a greater proportion of diffusive and reflective elements. Aside from the obvious variations from one two channel room to another, they all suffer from fundamental acoustical problems that multichannel environments can address. Thus, in many senses, multichannel (whether discrete or through good ambience extraction) is more fundamentally correct than two channel.
I think I've gone into great detail in the past on just why this is true, and to be honest I don't feel like repeating that discussion. Do a search on "multichannel AND joke" and I'm sure you'll find the thread. |
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10-14-2003, 11:31 AM
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#40 of 45
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The purpose of multichannel systems is to remove your room from the equation as much as is possible,
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Can you really do that? Can you have a completely dead room? Or do you live in a padded cell  ?
Anyway I see what you mean now. Sorry I didn't read your earlier posts on this subject and was only responding in context to the orignal posters question, that is sonic differences are most discernable in 2 ch systems.
Sorry again.
The truth is not out there but within you.
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10-14-2003, 12:10 PM
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#41 of 45
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my $.02 -- I'm very into multi-channel music and movies and have many dvd-audio and sacds all hooked up and calibrated properly. Multi-channel music sounds great and is a lot of fun. However, I still believe that a properly set up 2-channel system will sound the best.
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