JackS

I agree with almost every one here that responded. Great answers to the never ending story. My personal opinion is that I think you should aquire an amp and use it with your receiver even if the improvement turned out to be minimal. The amplifier is the one piece that you can use over a lifetime as other units in your set-up come and go through sales and upgrades. It turns out that the amplifier is the only real keeper in any system. I'm not familar with your 4802 but I would predict at least a minimal improvment. Look at this way, your not really going to be satisfied now until you do. Good Luck, Jack

Chuck Watwood

I have an Onkyo TXSR-800 receiver. This is a great receiver and I had no problem powering my power hungry 4 ohm Polk speakers with it. Like most audio/videophiles on this forum, I've read about separates, more power, etc. I finally decided to buy 3 200 watt Outlaw monoblocks. I power my center and two fronts with them. The difference is not night and day, because the Onkyo is a fairly high end receiver with excellent decoding and decent power,however, I immediately noticed that the sounds were more effortless, crisper, more transparent, and certainly kicked a little more ass on the high end. These amps also run barely warm even at reference levels. I still power my side and rear surrounds with my Onkyo. If money is an issue, I suggest monoblocks, buy them as you can afford them. If at some point you want to go to a 5-7 channel amp, monoblocks are easily sold. I suspect that Outlaw monoblocks would be snapped up very quickly if sold used. I was and am very happy with the Onkyo. At some point, I will pull the trigger and go to full separates, but I'm happy right now and have just upgraded my DVD player to a Panasonic RP91. I suggest that you spend your hard earned money on monoblocks and a decent sub. (I suggest an SVS sub, but I'm biased because of my 20-39PC+). I think you will be pleased and you can buy a better system in smaller bites. The post just above this one is correct, amps will stay with you after all other pieces are retired and replaced.

Chuck Watwood

Hello my name is Chuck and I\'m an HT addict.

Chu Gai

well some buy exactly what they need, others buy with the thoughts of it won't matter what speakers they put on the amp, it'll be capable of providing any amount of power continuously without dipping into it's reserves.

Michael...warm, bright...sheesh i don't put much stock into this and I personally don't subscribe to the philosophy of choosing an amp that'll intentionally interact with a speaker. If you or others do, then that's your perogative and I guess you can call it whatever you want to. I try very hard not to deal in very subjective terms that in turn don't relate back to amp specifics. When it comes to most mainstream products I definitely don't understand it. Bounce around enough forums and you'll see Denons being called bright, neutral, warm, forward, laid-back, etc. Whenever I see a chaotic, random response such as that, it just sends up warning flags. It suggests to me that what people are really commenting on is the speaker/room/musical selection that they're listening to. Will we still call a Marantz warm when it one day becomes a fully digital amp?

As to why people have a mindset of choosing a particular speaker that has certain qualities or characteristics and then want to offset them or think that they can is something that I just don't understand.

DaleBesh

You bring up some excellent points, Chu. For the life of me I have always had a problem with quality amplifiers sounding 'different'. True, some reviewers claim they can prove this with double-blind studies, etc.
I am not sure I would want an amp that would impart anything but neutrality in how it sounds, regardless of it's lineage. In otherwords, it would not have a sound of its own but simply reproduce what is fed to it.
Accepting that tube amps have a warmer sound 'in genaral' when compared with solid-state amps, can in some ways be an indictment against tube amps.
If things sound "better" they can certainly be explained to some extent if the amp is providing more power reserve, and can handle unusual or heavy speaker loads.
Matching the tonal quality of a loudspeaker to a particular amplifier has to be insignificant compared to the effects of the acoustical properties of the listening room.

Rich Malloy

I understand that most of the power-related improvement comes in the 50-100 watt range, and that one reaches the point of diminishing returns rather quickly. Still, would one realize much improvement going from a 65-75 watt/channel receiver to a 100 watt/channel amp? Or would it be advisable to go 200 watts/channel if possible, even if one is powering averagely efficient speakers (say 88db) in an average sized room?

I'm considering either the Outlaw 100 watt/7 channels and using the two additional channels to bi-amp my mains, or going with the Outlaw 200 watt/5 channels... you know, eventually. After the sub upgrade, etc...

\"Only one is a wanderer;
Two together are always going somewhere.\"

Ron-P

I noticed improvements going from a 75wpc receiver to 60wpc amps. Of course the 535s were bench tested at 79wpc before clipping. Still, that is almost neck and neck with that of my Marantz, yet the improvements were very noticeable.


Peace Out~

Sometime's you reach what's real by making believe.

Kevin Alexander

Chu, I think you're on to something. I, myself, have been perplexed on many occasions to hear several different people on this forum and others describe the same amp (Rotel, for example) as being warm to very bright, and everything in between. I've heard the same conflicting assertions w/ every other brand of amp as well.

"What does God want with a Starship?" - Captain Kirk from Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.

"For the first few minutes of the film, I had accidently listened to the Dolby Digital track." - Ron Epstein (HTF)

Mark Sherman

when I made my switch from my B&K AVR 307 to my present TAG McLaren Audio set up the difference was very noticeable. I could hear subtle little sounds that I had never heard before. Sound stage was improved as well as sound quality at low volumes.


when I went over a buddy of mines house who has the exact same speakers that I do in a room very similar to mine,and I heard what his yamaha did it was a amazing the difference between our 2 set ups.


So I say yes there is a difference in stepping up to separates.

Making the world a better Place one Plasma and LCD at a time

Shane Martin

Its called different ears hear different things. Age(of the person) and experience are 2 key factors here. Audio is a very subjective thing which is why I listen and make up my own mind rather than what a magazine, some bench tests, or someone else tells me. Would be willing to be you take 10 people to listen to the same recording on the same amp and you get different opinions.

BrianAe

my experience has been that the difference in the way electronics "sound" is minor compared to 2 things, the speaker and the room. Most people would agree with the speakers but many ignore there rooms even as they drop big money on separates.

I cringe whenever I see a picture of a fancy system with separates in a room with hardwood floors and lots of glass with little furniture.

Chu Gai

yes, now you need to dig a little deeper and come to some understanding of how the human hearing process works. I could suggest books, or likely you can find some universities that do research into psychoacoustics or audiology and get additonal information.

certainly if the results are expected to be random, then a recommendation based on random results is rather worthless. in those cases, the individual will pick out the words or thoughts that they think is right and agrees with their belief or biases.

as far as listening experience goes, when it comes to listening for difference, most people grossly overestimate their experience and abilities.
...what degree of improvement did you notice" from going to a separate amp to say...
...going to a different speaker wire
...going to a different carpeting
...when painting your room a dark color
and wind up getting equally widely divergent responses.

when the results are chaos Shane, a recommendation based on chaos has very little to stand upon. perhaps one day you'll consider adopting a more rigorous and unbiased approach...maybe even read some peer reviewed stuff. it's no fun adopting the philosophy of Eeyore and not being curious enough to try. maybe this is what they mean by YMMV?