Will a good external DAC make an Average Transport sound fantastic?

Brett DiMichele · 04-30-2003, 09:58 AM

Hey All,

I know this is sort of bordering on the sources section of
the HTF but since I am talking about external DAC's I feel
it's better suited in this section.

If you take an average CD or DVD player and use it solely
as a transport and mate it with a very good DAC will it
make a tremendous improvement. Or is just purchasing a very
high quality Player a better option?

I am not looking to buy anything! I was just curious..

glenn.arsenault · 04-30-2003, 11:44 AM

That depends on costs vs perceived value. I had a mediocre Sony ES CD player that sounded "bright" and cd's played on it had a very 2 dimensional soundstage. So, I picked up a used Audio Alchemy DTI (clocking), a Audio Alchemy DDE (DAC)and the necessary cables (1 toslink from CD player to DTI, 1 digital from DTI to DDE, and 1 set analog from DDE to preamp). I think, I speant about $400 for the components and cables. The sound was transformed - no longer bright and a wide and deep 3 dimensional soundstage.

I probably could have bought a new cd player, but the cost to achieve the same quality of sound would have been more than it cost me to use the external dac. Eventually, I did buy a higher quality CD player.

Jonathan M · 04-30-2003, 05:29 PM

In my opinion, there are 2 main things that make a CD player sound good:

1. The DAC and it's implementation.
2. The analog amplification stage after the DAC.

Most transports sound the same in my experience, as long as they have reasonable jitter ratings etc. (And all do).

Some external DACs may be better, some may not be. I have seen commercial DACs that are nothing more than the straight design from the DACs data sheet, using vanilla parts (NE5532 op-amps etc.) Others are better.

The IDEAL solution is an all in one unit - ie a good DAC in the player. This eliminates the SPDIF connection which is fraught with design faults (Clock must be extracted from the signal, thus increasing jitter problems, the connectors used (RCA) are not 75 ohm, thus there are impedance discontinuities in the transmission line etc etc.).

Ofcourse, if you are using the CD-player with a receiver and wish to apply bass-management, then using the receivers DACs would be the way to go (No extra ADC/DAC conversion).

Michael R Price · 04-30-2003, 06:32 PM

Brett,

Give me 2 months and I'll tell you.

I'm building Scott Nixon's simple/cheap yet very well designed DacKit (which is available for $250 as a finished product). The disadvantage of that DAC is its limited output capability since it has passive I/V conversion and no output stage, but you should be fine since you now have a good preamp. My CD player is a 14 year old (at one time, expensive) Denon, and I have a feeling it should be a big improvement over the complicated opamp-based circuit in there.

I think a DAC, especially one that can reduce jitter or is less sensitive to it in the first place, should make more difference than the transport. Installing a new clock and playing with the damping and grounding in your transport could make a big difference for not much money, as well.

Wynda · 04-30-2003, 11:11 PM

Hello to all,

Just curious, Glenn, what kind of Sony ES CD player did you own? I have the CDP XA-20ES, which shares similar circuity with XA-7ES. The latter CD player was once a class A Stereophile product. The former has also been well rated in the past by Soundstage. In line with the current theme, I have moved onto an external DAC.

Sony CDP XA-20ES -> Monarchy Audio DIP -> Perpetual Technology P3A DAC (modified by Dan Wright)

Soundstage, solidity of bass, and overall clarity improved, with less overall harshness in the hi's. The trend in recent years has been to separate the transport from the DAC. In addition, the benefit of the latest DAC chip has also been touted. That's why there was such a sudden surge of manufacturers putting out standalone DACs.

Now, I think the trend is gradually shifting towards to single unit players. If I were starting from scratch, I would go with a solid single unit player (CD or SACD). I would be interested in hearing other's opinions on this matter. Thanks.

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John Royster · 04-30-2003, 11:57 PM

I agree with Johnathon...

Good DAC and solid analog output stage are everyting. For simplicity's sake I'd like a "all in one" solution, but if you're on a budget find an excellent DAC and go for it. You can't over look the analog output stage.

My 10 year old adcom CD player still sounds much more open and deep than my current sony 555es. It boasts a class A analog output (whether that matters or not I'll never know, but it does sound nice).

Cheers!
John

-edit- To answer your original question Brett - YES!

Brett DiMichele · 05-01-2003, 01:21 AM

Thanks for the info All!!

Mike,

Let me know how the DIY DAC turns out.. I wasn't really
considering an external DAC but I may.. It's either that
or I am buying an expensive player.. But that's down the
road anyway.. maybe 6 months or so

Lynn Little · 05-01-2003, 01:27 AM

"If you take an average CD or DVD player and use it solely
as a transport and mate it with a very good DAC will it
make a tremendous improvement."

IMHO, yes! Here's my setup:

AMC CD8b CD player, which uses Sony transport (<$300, used as transport only)
Kimber Illuminations D60 Digital Coax Cable (transport-DCE)
Perpetual Technologies P-1A DCE
Camelot Technology Excalibur III I2S Cable (DCE-DAC)
ModWright Signature "Plus" Perpetual Technologies P-3A DAC
Kimber Kable KCAG Interconnects (DAC-receiver analog inputs)
Monolithic Sound P3 power supply (for P-1A & P-3A)

It sounds incredible...

Brett DiMichele · 05-01-2003, 01:30 AM

Lynn,

You could have just told me the hardware

The cables..
Well, I am not getting into that discussion I just make my
own

Sincerely though, thanks for sharing your equipment and
opinion.

I just don't know what route I will eventualy go. From the
start I wanted to just go with a very good all in one and
budget about a grand for it.

Chu Gai · 05-01-2003, 04:37 AM

Getting a CD player, or for that matter a DVD player, with inaudible levels of jitter for under $500, maybe even substantially less, is not a big thing Brett. Keep in mind that a top shelf BB DAC is only about $5....Wow! However if you're interested, I'll send you a link where you can buy a product that'll test the performance capabilities of a CD player. Under $25 I think.