|
|
 |
 |
 |
03-25-2003, 09:22 PM
|
#1 of 27 
|
|
Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Local Time: 02:16 AM
Local Date: 10-14-2008
Posts: 6
|
Outlaw 1050 or Denon AVR-1803?
I'm about to buy my first HT receiver. I have narrowed it down to these two models. I'm giving my pros and cons here in the hope someone can offer some additional insight before I spend $500 and regret it later! I'm still looking for that "aha!" moment when the choice becomes clear.
Outlaw:
Pros:
1. Many positive reviews (Stereophile, etc.) must infer this unit IS something special?
2. Heavy duty build quality infers the direct sale approach is paying for a design out of the reach of the same price in the dealer channel.
Cons:
1. No DPL II (sidebar; since DPL II (and DPL) is essentially an artificial format, since no original stereo recordings were originally mixed in 5 channels, is this something the stereo purist would avoid anyway?)
2. 6.1 decoding is proprietary, not DS EX or DTS ES
3. Lack of inputs? (Doesn't concern me much, see below)
4. Leap of faith, since I can't listen to it first?
Denon:
Pros:
1. Denon 1802 reviewd as "best receiver under $500" by CHT; can we infer the 1802, which replaces it, will offer the same performance?
2. Has authentic DPL II, DS EX, etc.
Cons:
1. No critical acclaim (i.e. reviews)yet.
I should also add that the winner will be used for CD & vinyl (yes I do have a turntable still, and yes, I know the Denon has a phono input, but I already have an RIAA equalizer, so this is not such an issue) at least as much as HT. We have vitually no prerecorded video tapes (although we rent/borrow them from public library; a switch to DVD will come once we figure this all out), we don't have cable or DSS (and don't plan to). Hence it needs to serve double duty as HT and main audio system, as we don't have the budget for a separate audio system.
So, that's my thinking. I'd love to hear some reasoned, insightful commentary from wiser souls on the forum.
Thanks!
|
|
|
 |
 |
|
03-25-2003, 11:06 PM
|
#2 of 27
|
|
Join Date: Jun 1999
Local Time: 07:16 PM
Local Date: 10-13-2008
Posts: 5,493
|
Build quality wise the 1050 is better, however the 1050 does not have any 6.1 processing for DTS-ES, only Dolby tracks. A fatal flaw in its design.
The Denon does have DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 and DTS-ES Matrix decoding, a big plus in its favor as ES 6.1 decoding is the only way you can experience a discrete center back channel on specific DTS software. Dolby Digital EX only has a matrix derived center back channel.
Dan
|
|
|
|
|
03-27-2003, 09:12 PM
|
#3 of 27
|
|
Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Local Time: 02:16 AM
Local Date: 10-14-2008
Posts: 6
|
Dan,
Thanks for the comments. I am very torn between the two. Overall I want something that will sound great with regular stereo as well as surround. If it wasn't for the lack of DPL II & DTS-ES on the 1050, I would have placed my order by now. These two omissions are what is making me hesistate. However, so far I have found 7 independent reviews (including 2 from Stereophile, which is what brought the thing to my attention in the first place) of the 1050 that recommend it strongly, and some have even preferred to proprietary 6.1 processing over DD EX. I'm wondering if I'm worrying too much and should just buy it and start enjoying the music?
John.
|
|
|
|
|
03-27-2003, 10:21 PM
|
#4 of 27
|
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 1999
Local Time: 07:16 PM
Local Date: 10-13-2008
Posts: 21,275
|
John, that's a really good first post there. Welcome aboard!
You won't go wrong with either of those fine units. I selected the 1803 for my bedroom setup for a variety of reasons, among them its more current processing capabilities.
|
|
|
|
|
03-28-2003, 11:24 AM
|
#5 of 27
|
|
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Local Time: 07:16 PM
Local Date: 10-13-2008
Posts: 51
|
John, If you don't know, Outlaw Audio does have its own website with its members putting out good answers to questions people have about its unit. Good source for info on their products. I also think that they have a 30 day free trial on their units? If you haven't already, check out their website.
|
|
|
|
|
03-28-2003, 02:40 PM
|
#6 of 27
|
|
Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Local Time: 11:16 PM
Local Date: 10-13-2008
Posts: 436
|
I think your cons against the outlaw are very real and valid. I would definitly make PLII a requirement (though results vary depending on source). On the other hand, I question your pros for the outlwaw are questionable. The DENON is well built and maybe the outlaw is too but it looks cheap. As for critical acclaim, you yourself cited CHT which didn't give the outlaw such a good review.
|
|
|
|
|
03-28-2003, 03:06 PM
|
#7 of 27
|
|
Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Local Time: 11:16 PM
Local Date: 10-13-2008
Posts: 436
|
A couple other things to consider:
1) Price. While they retail for the same, you should be able to find the DENON for about 400US.
2) Remote. I don't know about the outlaw but the DENON remote is terrible.
|
|
|
|
|
03-28-2003, 03:25 PM
|
#8 of 27
|
|
Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Local Time: 09:16 PM
Local Date: 10-13-2008
Posts: 1,450
|
I just put together a living room HT for a buddy of mine.. He needed a decent receiver on the cheap. I chose the Denon 1803 for him and it really is a fantastic HT receiver for 400 bucks. I sold him four B&W 303's + the matching center channel and ordered him an Adire Rava sub (another killer deal for cheap). I've never heard the Outlaw but, too me, it looks like a Tonka toy...junkie looking. May not mean anything to some but, it does to me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
03-28-2003, 07:00 PM
|
#9 of 27
|
|
Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Local Time: 02:16 AM
Local Date: 10-14-2008
Posts: 6
|
I guess in the end what it comes down to for me is sound. I can live with "ugly" styling, a bad remote, and even perhaps less than current surround, etc as long as the sound is best I can get for the money. I'm drawn to the (allegedly) extra money that has been put into the guts of the Outlaw to improve its performance, that may be lacking on the Denon. I would estimate that the winning unit will be used for regular stereo playback of CDs and vinyl probably at least 50% of the time, so if it doesn't do that well, then I'm going to be dissatisfied. For now, a good performance on two channel stereo is very important, and some of the reviews have made it clear the Outlaw delivers in this area.
Regarding CHT's review of the Outlaw, to me it didn't seem they gave it a poor review; they recommended it if you needed 6.1. The only reservation they seemed to have was that if you didn't need 6.1, then maybe there were better choices. But I got the impression they said this because the points against the Outlaw were function related(lack of inputs, etc), rather than performace related.
Stereophile gave the Outlaw their Gold Award last year, and put it on the Recommended Components list for 2003. Despite the rather dated processing specs, doesn't this infer that there must be something special about this unit?
This is all balanced against silence regarding the Denon's performance. I have yet to see a single review of it; are there any? That's not to say it's no good; indeed, maybe Outlaw's marketing dept are just more adept at courting the reviwers (but presumably they are doing this in confidence of a positive outcome?). I work in marketing, and I am well aware of how savvy marketing can take you to the top regardless of the quality (or otherwise) of your product. Has anyone tracked down a Denon review? I'd also love to read a transcript of the original Stereophile Sept 2001 review for the 1050, but so far Stereophile wants to charge me $8 + shipping to get a back issue. Has this review sneaked out onto the web anywhere?
Thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
03-28-2003, 09:00 PM
|
#10 of 27
|
|
Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Local Time: 02:16 AM
Local Date: 10-14-2008
Posts: 6
|
If I could, I would like to ask Jack what other features of the Denon drew him towards it?
|
|
|
| |
