The Ultimate ASIAN Film Tournament - Page 8

Jim_K · 11-28-2003, 02:36 PM

Now is that a "failure" in Kurosawa's ability to properly tell the story?

I have to wonder if you even read what I wrote?

Let's try it again

Spoiler:

Would that make it a more compelling film?

It's like the difference between a Kurosawa samurai film and The Samurai Trilogy.

And that difference would be what? One film has Kurosawa's name in the credits and the other Inagaki. Two very different Directors & very different approaches to the Genre. It's like comparing a Ford/Wayne Western to a Euro-Western. As incomprehensible as it may seem I happen to appreciate all types.

I do think it's curious that you hold Inagaki's The Samurai Trilogy & Chushingura in such disdain yet Inagaki happened to be a major influence on Mizoguchi among others. Go figure.

But if you're going to imply that I'm simply sucking at the teat of Mizoguchi and would praise 30m of cow dung if it had his name on it, than we have nothing to discuss anyway.

Well I'm not implying anything of the sort. I've read and understood your viewpoints (you prefer the Cinematography & unconventional storytelling) even if I don't share them.

It's too bad you're unwilling or unable to understand opposing viewpoints so I do agree with you that it appears we have nothing more to discuss.

john davies · 11-28-2003, 03:00 PM

Crouching Tiger
Seven Samurai (Kurosawa's masterpiece)
Tokyo Story
Red Sorghum

all these are excellent.

I'm sorry my original aside on Mizoguchi, as the Japanese director most admired by Kurosawa, has led to, shall we say, vehement altercation tunnelling away under this poll. It's so often the case with admirers of Japanese cinema that a contest develops between the 2 camps (a la French New Wave directors v American 70's film brats. Rivette said you can only compare what is comparable). Of course, it's perfectly possible to admire both greatly, even while having a clear preference. Kurosawa was a magnificent director, and i don't like finding fault with him; it's just that for us Mizoguchi fans, we're always struggling to overcome his appalling neglect and need to say "hey!, there's much more to Japanese classic cinema than Kurosawa". Perhaps if the Star Wars fans had taken more interest in the screenwriter Yoda things might be different. But then, the best kept secrets...

The incredible variety of Japanese treasures should be celebrated, with as united a front as possible.

MartinTeller · 11-28-2003, 03:41 PM

I'm sorry my original aside on Mizoguchi, as the Japanese director most admired by Kurosawa, has led to, shall we say, vehement altercation tunnelling away under this poll.

Not your fault, John. There are certain people on this forum who just enjoy pushing buttons and being rude.

Brook K · 11-28-2003, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Well I'm not implying anything of the sort. I've read and understood your viewpoints (you prefer the Cinematography & unconventional storytelling) even if I don't share them.

And I the same. You've just said more than once in this thread "I try to judge films on their own merits no matter who the Director is", thereby implying that others are not doing the same. If you meant nothing by it, than I apologize.

If Kurosawa altered the climax, it would be a different film. We don't really know if it would be better or worse and can't compare because we would not have the ending as it stands now to compare it to. But I believe that had he chosen to, Kurosawa could have ended the film without violence or with implied violence and made it just as compelling.

The Inagaki films are ok, I just don't find anything noteworthy about them. I look for a personal voice, both thematically and stylistically, in the films that I like best, and I don't see than in either of these films. I'd rather see more movies by Ozu, Masumura, Wakamatsu, Suzuki, Teshigahara, etc. that offer more of what I like best about cinema.

I realize that you don't feel the same and we'll just disagree on this point. I also realize that you've seen more of these films and have a wider basis for comparison than I. I have much more breadth than depth in Japanese cinema and aside from Kurosawa and a tiny handful of others, have only seen 1 or 2 films by several of the "name" directors.

Bill McA · 11-28-2003, 05:18 PM

Yojimbo
Seven Samurai
Tokyo Story
Red Sorghum

Jim_K · 11-28-2003, 06:04 PM

That's ok Brook,

The reason I said "I try to judge films on their own merits no matter who the Director is", is because there was a time were I would only seek out films by certain Directors & ignored films by certain other Directors.

For example:
I've seen hundreds & hundreds of Westerns from the late 30's to the present. One of my favorite Directors in that genre is Sergio Leone. However not until recently have I explored any other of the over 600 Spaghetti westerns made. Why? Because I was afraid they'd all be stylistic rip-offs of Leone. Well quite a few are unfortunately but I've just discovered a handful that I'd rank up with the very best of the genre.

A failing on my part & I'm a little mad at myself for not being very open to these films up til recently because of who they weren't directed by.

I also know that we both approach films from different directions. Make no mistake in that entertainment is an important factor in what I watch. Though that doesn't mean that I haven't been open to "expand my horizons" in trying out the more acclaimed Art films.

Because of how I approach these films my comments regarding them may seem ignorant because I'm looking at a different angle. Other times I'm just plain ignorant period.

Neither one of us is right or wrong we're just looking for different things in the same place.

Anyhow I hope there's no hard feelings as there are none on my end. Without heated debates this place would be dull & lifeless.

Brook K · 11-28-2003, 07:48 PM

Not at all, I've been going through this for awhile with George.

I've got to find a way to see Red Sorghum. With everything its already beaten, plus getting votes over Ikiru and Hana-bi, it must be something very special.

Jim_K · 11-29-2003, 09:35 AM

My votes
Yojimbo
Seven Samurai
Spirited Away
Ikiru

Yojimbo over Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon 3-2

Seven Samurai over Stray Dog 4-1

Tokyo Story over Spirited Away 4-1

Red Sorghum over Ikiru & Hana-bi 2-1-0

Yojimbo

vs.

Seven Samurai

------------------------

Tokyo Story

vs.

Red Sorghum

Brook K · 11-29-2003, 10:41 AM

Seven Samurai

abstain, no RS (Go Tokyo Story)

Simon_Lepine · 11-29-2003, 10:48 AM

Seven Samurai