Digital Camera help....

Mike_Ped · 02-19-2004, 12:33 AM

oooooook....

Tis the time to buy a new digital camera and I figured I'd upgrade from 3 megapixel point and shoot camera to a SLR...

After doing some research, I think I've selected the Canon EOS D10 as the lucky winner. The problem I'm having is selecting an appropriate lense...

My issue arises from the fact that this camera has a lens magnification factor of 1.6x...

So, I'm looking for a lense that is pretty versatile (landscapes, group photos, etc...); or will I have to purchase multiple lenses?

Thanx for any feedback...

Brett DiMichele · 02-19-2004, 01:08 AM

Mike,

Did you look at the Sigma SD10 when you looked at the
Canon 10D?

I shot a Canon 10D, Nikon D100 and Sigma SD10 plus played
with the Canon 300D and went for the Sigma.

Why? Because of the sensor! I wasn't locked into purchasing
a body solely because I had accumulated 30 years worth of
lenses so the Sigma SA Mount didn't "lock" me into anything
IMHO besides it's hard to say if Canon will keep the EF
Mount or change it in 5 years due to digital technology.

For me the Foveon X3 Sensor in the Sigma was what did it.
The full 100% Sized images out of the SD9 and SD10 Sigma's
blew me away but none of the other cameras (which all use
Bayer based Sensors) did not really blow me away.

With all that aside the Canon 10D is a very good camera no
doubt about it (as is the Nikon D100!). I just didn't care
for the way the controls were laid out on either and the
images out of the camera (only your eyes can decide).

Do not confuse the 1.6x Field Of View (FOV)Crop Factor as a
Magnification Factor. The 1.6 FOV does not impact the Focal
Length of the lens, meaning a 100mm-300mm is still a 100mm
to 300mm but due to the 10D and every other D-SLR (other
than the Canon 1Ds and Kodak 14N) having smaller than 35mm
Sensors the Image Circle of the Lens is larger than the
sensor so basically you are always shooting the center of
the glass on the lens it takes less glass to cover the
sensor.

If you want an exteme wide angle you are going to pay for it.
But once you step into the the D-SLR Market money becomes a
moote factor because ALL good SLR Lenses are $$$$$$ As are
Flashes and everything else.

You can use Sigma lenses on the Canon and I would highely
recommend you look at Sigma's EX (Excellence)line of glass
as there are many Sigma EX Lenses that rank as high as Canon
L Glass at 1/2 the price or less.

I personally went with a 100/300 F4.0 Constant EX and a
24/70 F2.8 Constant EX and a Prime 50mm Macro F2.8 but in
the near future I want a wider angle and also more Telephoto.

If you can I would suggest going to a store and extensively
handling each camera first and see if you can shoot it..
Any great camera shop should let you do this!

Mike_Ped · 02-19-2004, 03:55 AM

Thanx for the reply Brett...

Until now, the Sigma had not been brought to my attention. Thus far, I really like what I've read on their website. Some testing is in hand next!

Thanx again!

Brett DiMichele · 02-19-2004, 05:44 AM

Mike,

I am just glad to give you some more options to make a well
informed choice. Also if you can hold off a few months the
Nikon D70 looks interesting ($999.00 for the body) and
outperforms the Nikon D100 ($1400.00 Body) in some respects.

And if you want to compare the output of all these D-SLR's
please follow this link.

http://www.pbase.com/cameras

And to see images from the Sigma SD9 and SD10 respectively
go here:

http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd9

http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd10

Be sure to check out the galleries of Dominick Groab,
Laurence Mattson, Rick Decker, Champa Arounee and many
others!(The Sigma Galleries)

If on a high speed connection always view the original 100%
images.. All cameras look great when downsampled but it's
when viewed at 100% that will make or break the image quality
IMHO!

Good Luck and let me know how you make out. And if you have
any questions be they Sigma related or just D-SLR related
please email me at brettd@westol.com

Max Leung · 02-19-2004, 11:53 AM

For a moment I thought you were talking about the inferior Sigma SLR with the old foveon sensor, but that was the SD9, not the SD10!

However, keep in mind that if you get the Sigma, it is unlikely you will be able to use much of the Canon lens line. You will be locked into only using Sigma lenses!

Buying an SLR is buying into a system, like buying an operating system for your computer. If you get a Canon SLR, you can use any of the vast selection of Canon lenses, as well as many 3rd party lenses from Tamron, Sigma, etc. Canon SLRs are the best supported in the industry, IMHO.

You should take a serious look at the camera reviews at www.dpreview.com as well. You will see objective comparisons between the different cameras (ie. Canon 300D vs. 10D vs. SD9 vs. whatever else). Looking at galleries won't help you much, because image quality is very photographer-skill-dependent...

Educate yourself before taking the plunge!

**HTF Ads**

Dan D. · 02-19-2004, 03:26 PM

I agree with Max's commments about the Canon lens line and DPReview. DPReview is a particularly outstanding resource.

The Sigma/Foveon is an intriguing camera, but you are limited to the Sigma lens line only. Granted, Sigma does have some very good lenses, and some good values. Their line isn't as consistant quality-wise as Canon, and the truly high-quality EX models that compare favorably to the Canon L line are usually the most expensive relative to their competition. Sigma makes all of their lenses in a Canon mount as well as for their own bodies. The Nikon N70 is an interesting camera, though to date only vaporware, and was clearly pre-announced to prevent Nikon owners from jumping to the Canon Digital Rebel/300D. I'm sure it will be a fine camera, but you can almost certainly count on Canon to deliver a 10D and/or Digital Rebel upgrade (speculated for late summer) to counter it. Canon did the same to Nikon's not-yet-shipping D2H by releasing the 1D Mark II, a superior camera by nearly every measure. The point of my comment is not to snub Nikon, but just to say that the waiting game is tough to play in the digital world these days.

That said, let me address your original question. I am a 10D user and understand your desire for a good all-around lens. I can offer two suggestions, both of which I own and use extensively.

My first suggestion would be the Canon 28-135mm f3.5-5.6 IS. This lens gives you an effective range of about 45-216mm in 35mm terms (crop vs. magnification discussion aside). That's lacking a bit on the wide angle side, but provides a nice amount of zoom. The 28-135 has a great reputation for sharpness and quality. Best of all, you get Canon's Image Stabilization system, which is nothing short of miraculous in low light situations. I've owned this lens for over 5 years and it is still my favorite. It is also quite reasonably priced.

If you feel wide angle is more important than zoom, such as if you plan on focusing on landscapes or architechture, I suggest the Canon 17-40mm f4.0L (27-64mm equivilent). This is an exceptional lens and a favorite among 10D users. It is hard to surpass either the image quality or build quality of this lens. In the high-quality lens world, it's not that expensive, though pricier than the 28-135mm. One good thing about Canon L series lenses (and the better non-L Canon lenses) is that they hold their value very well, making swaps or upgrades far less painful.

One last note, whichever whay you go, you should avoid the "hyperzooms", i.e. lenses with a 8-10x zoom range. A 28-200mm or 28-300mm lens may sound great, but you have to make a great sacrifce to optics to pull it off. You are looking at some great cameras here, DO NOT go cheap on glass.

Keith Mickunas · 02-19-2004, 04:24 PM

I've got a 10D also, and I love it. I also use the Canon 28-135mm f3.5-5.6 IS lens. I still need to get a good wide angle lens, it is a pain with this camera, but other than that everything about it is good.

I doubt there will be a problem with availability of lenses for these cameras. Canon makes a bunch, 70 or more I believe, and there are several other brands that I've heard good things about. Also, a good number of the accessories can be used on multiple EOS bodies. The 300D does have a series of lenses for it that don't work on the 10D, and I believe other EOS cameras, but that's the exception, not the rule.

Max Leung · 02-19-2004, 05:09 PM

I have the Canon 300D aka Canon Digital Rebel, with the kit lens (18-55mm I believe, equivalent to 27-88mm on a 35 mm camera). If I had gotten a 10D I'd be hard pressed finding a wide-angle lens without spending at least $500 US for one that doesn't suck. Then I'd have to find another lens to cover the same range as the Rebel with a kit lens.

I have the excellent Canon 50mm 1.8 mk2 lens (~$70 US), the standard 18-55mm kit lens (adds $100 to a barebones Rebel...well worth it) that came with my Rebel, and the nice Canon 28-135mm IS lens (~$500 US). I'd love to have a 70-300mm lens, but for the moment I'll use my feet to zoom...

Digital SLRs can easily exceed HT equipment in costs, I can guarantee you that.

Ari · 02-19-2004, 06:07 PM

A happy 10D owner chiming in...

You've really got to decide what your priorities are (versatility vs. quality) and what sort of stuff you'll be shooting. Canon lenses have focal lengths of 12mm all the way to 1200mm and each one has its purpose. The subjects and the conditions you'll be shooting will determine what you need.

For instance, I have a Canon 17-40 f4L for landscapes and group portraits, Tamron 28-75 for general photography, a Canon 50 1.8 for low-light and portraits, a 100f2 for outdoor portraits and indoor sports and a 70-200 2.8 for outdoor sports and wildlife.

Dpreview.com is a good source of information and recommendations. All of the lens manufacturers (Canon included) make gems as well as lemons so it's best to do some research before buying.