[Jonathan DA]

Mark!!! SSSSHHHHH!!!!

Colin, I said 20+ <---- note the "+"

[Hank Frankenberg]

DSP development? Oh no, an "array" of op-amps between the music and the drivers, oh my! 10+ mid-woofs per side? Look out GR, here come the Mirus High-Ceiling Arrays!

[Jonathan DA]

Who said anything about MIDwoofs?

[Mark Hayenga]

Yeah. We're far too evil for just MIDwoofers.

[Hank Frankenberg]

I can just see it now: a line of Adire 12", no, excuse me, you're into HIGH (price) END...a stack of SEAS 12". Mama-mia! Look out, GR! Hometown boys make the big-time.

[Jonathan DA]

I don't consider GR to be our competition, I'm thinking more along the lines of Martin Logan, Wisdom Audio, Wilson, Alon, etc. The customer that is willing to build a line source is a little different market than the customer who is willing to pay the cost of a small house in Arkansas for a pair of speakers.

(nothing against any of those very fine manufacturers, they just represent the economic class of consumer that our high-end models will be marketed to)

[Mark Hayenga]

hee hee hee
I just requested a quote on a 2KVA transformer. I'm giddy.

Jonathan -

Are you sure the world needs another $20K+ speaker? There are lots of big, established companies pursuing that market - all those names you mentioned, plus B&W, Vandersteen, Magnepan (though the $12K MG20.1 may seem like 'slumming' to these buyers), etc. They've got the ad budgets to spash their product all over Stereophile and have lined up big dealer networks.

It seems hardly any audio companies (except perhaps Outlaw) target the middle-class hobbyist anymore. I hope Mirus doesn't pursue the handful of people left who can/will spend $20K+ for a pair of speakers.

I kind of wonder how the economics of the audio industry really works. After all, I'd think there's more potential to make money selling 10,000 pair of $1,000 speakers than a few pair of $50,000 speakers. Yet it seems no one is even trying to raise the bar in a sane price range anymore. To me, at least, the field already seems crowded for ultra-high-end gear, unless the R&D that goes into these products is finding its way into next year's mid-level products...

[Hank Frankenberg]

I don't consider GR to be our competition

Jonathan, once again my dry humor swept past you like a dry West Texas zephyr

I just requested a quote on a 2KVA transformer. I'm giddy.

And I'm jealous, Mark Custom power amp to go along with the Mirus Megaliths?

I hope Mirus doesn't pursue the handful of people left who can/will spend $20K+ for a pair of speakers.

Colin, I think Mirus is doing this line array as a cutom job for a specific customer, and also probably to further exercise their already very good design skills. Look at the price of their first two official products. Actually, I believe there are far too many speaker manufacturers in that $1,000 price range for a new startup company without big advertising dollars to make a go of it. Companies selling 10,000 pairs of speakers are large companies with brand recognition and reputations, and advertising out the kazoo, all of which are what gets them floor space in the stores, and being in lots of stores is what gets the exposure to sell at that volume level. Start-ups therefore have to find a niche, either with new technology/design or with a product aimed at a fairly small target market that is too small to attract the big guys. Selling speakers without advertising and without being on store shelves is a most daunting challenge. I wish our local boys well.

[Jonathan DA]

I don't want to go into the Mirus Audio business plan on a public forum, I can only say stay tuned and you'll see it unfold over the next year. As for pursuing the $20k+ market, Hank is correct, these kinds of speakers are only built one at a time and each one is highly individualized. Very few, if any, speaker companies keep the lights on by selling super-mega-ultimate-high-end components. Most make their bread and butter off their cheaper offerings. We are developing two lines of speakers, called Reference and Signature. The Reference line you have already had a taste of, the Debrio and Initium are the two lower priced models in the line, and we have a new model, the Altus, coming out soon that will complete the line, along with the Exundo sub that was at DIY2002. All the speakers in the Reference line are designed to be high value and high performance. The Signature line, on the other hand, throws caution to the wind, and we're going all out to create the best sound possible regardless of price. We did, however, keep in mind modern space limitations, so you'll see different models of various sizes. The ribbon megalith we've been discussing is the top model in the Signature series. It's our, "yeah, that was cool, but top this" model. Anyway, I should stop talking now lest the moderators decide this qualifies as advertising.

Hank, that was so dry I'm still trying to get the dust out of my mouth.

The new comments from Hank and Jonathan suggest I made an incorrect snap judgment, but that talk of speakers that cost more than some houses hit a raw nerve...

I think the dot.com bubble induced many audio companies to pursue ludicrously expensive products (>$5K per front-end component, or speakers with 5-figure prices). There are not that many genuine music/film lovers with that kind of money to throw around. A lot of these super-high-end sales are to wealthy individuals looking not just to keep up with the Joneses, but completely blow them out of the water...

Now there's nothing wrong with advancing the state of the art or building a no-compromises speaker system ... but I'd like to see some engineering talent go into products that HTF members would buy.

I don't know of anyone who is building/selling an updated/improved ribbon/dynamic hybrid. There used to be the Carver "Amazing Loudspeaker," but the old Carver went under, and Sunfire has not updated/reintroduced the product. This, in particular, is an idea that I think needs to be revived, because ribbons define the state of the art in treble sound reproduction. Even though 6' long ribbon tweeters are very expensive, there should be viable designs that don't cost 5 figures. If the Carver Amazing Loudspeaker were around today, it would probably list at $3,000-$3,500. (An aside: Sunfire has their own ill-conceived product, a $4,000 'Ultimate Receiver' that puts a Theater Grand III and a Cinema Grand in one chassis. I think anyone with $4K to burn on a receiver would be seriously looking into separates.)

But maybe Hank is right that it's too tough of a market. Maybe that is because the mid-level enthusiast market is less profitable than the lunatic fringe of the high end, yet does less volume than the mass market.

Many value-oriented high-end companies have run into financial trouble:

- Von Schweikert went out of business, then started up as a new company. A few years ago, you could get a pair of VR-4s for $2,800. Now they are $5,000 - a completely different price range.
- Audio Alchemy had successful DAC/accessory products, but they succumbed to financial pressures and went bankrupt.
- Sonic Frontiers overreached into the high end by selling CD transports and DACs with 5-figure prices (EACH). Not only were the products expensive, but they were unreliable, and even well-heeled buyers stayed away. When they were selling components for $2K each, they were making money. Now Paradigm owns the company, and they nixed the upper-end Sonic Frontiers line.
- The prices of B&W speakers have doubled in the last 3-4 years. At their new high prices, their products are uncompetitive (in my opinion).

I just hope that in the future, quality hi-fi equipment will still be attainable for enthusiasts who are not multi-millionaires...

And on the GR line source...

I wonder if the sonic character of these speakers changed after they were broken in, or if they just were not well-suited to Hank's living room. The sound I heard when the GR line arrays got fired up was extremely bright. Despite nine woofers on each side, there did not seem to be very strong/deep bass response.

Hopefully I was just listening to an unfinished/not-broken-in product. I really like the idea of selling parts/plans to build a pair of line arrays for ~$2,000.