[Nils Luehrmann]

On a related note, I try and keep a list of current model projectors so that I know what to keep an eye out for demo purposes. You might find some value in it.



PROJECTORS w/STANDARD (4:3) NATIVE RESOLUTIONS
================================================== =

SVGA
---------------------------------------------------
800x600 LCD $1,300-$7,000
* too many makes & models to list

800x600 DLP $2,000-$7,000
* too many makes & models to list


XGA
---------------------------------------------------
1024x768 LCD $2,100-$ 35,000
* too many makes & models to list

1024x768 DLP $2,200-$150,000
* too many makes & models to list


SXGA
---------------------------------------------------
1280x1024 LCD $16,700-$30,000
Sharp XG Series XG-V10WU
Panasonic PT-L6600U (Panasonic PT-L6600UL)
Barco BarcoReality 6500
Sanyo PLC-EF10NZ (EIKI LC-SX1UL & LC-SX1U) (Proxima Pro AV 9400) (Boxlight FP-95t)
Sanyo PLC-EF12NL (Sanyo PLC-EF12N)
Sony VPL-FE110
Sanyo PLC-EF30NL (Sanyo PLC-EF30N) (Christie Vivid Blue) (Dukane ImagePro 9058) (Proxima Pro AV 9550)

1280x1024 DLP $30,000-$130,000
Christie (many different models)
NEC (many different models)
Digital Projection (many different models)
Barco (many different models)
Panasonic PT-D7600U
Panasonic PT-D8600U
Panasonic PT-D9610U
Runco Reflection VX-5c
ProjectionDesign F1

1280x1024 LCoS $18,000
JVC DLA-M15U

1366x1024 LCD $14,600-$27,500
NEC GT2150
Digital Projection SHOWlite 3000sx
Epson PowerLite 9100i/NL (A+K EMP 9100)
Barco iQ R300 (Pro R300)
Barco iQ R400 (Pro R400)

1365x1024 LCoS $8,500-$75,000
Hitachi CP-SX5500W (Dukane ImagePro 9115) (Christie Vivid Red)
JVC DLA-G15U (G15U-V) (G150CL) (S15U) (S15U-V) (Dukane ImagePro 9015)
JVC DLA-G20U (G20U-V) (M20U) (M20U-V) (M2000LU) (M2000SC) (Dukane ImagePro 9020)
JVC DLA-M5000SCU

1400x1050 LCoS $10,000
JVC DLA-SX21


UXGA
---------------------------------------------------
1600x1200 LCD $45,000-$51,300
Barco Ultra Reality 7000
Sanyo PLC-UF10 (Christie Vivid White) (EIKI LC-UXT1)


QXGA
---------------------------------------------------
2048x1536 LCD $13,000
Lasergraphics LG2001

2048x1536 LCoS $225,000
JVC DLA-QX1G



PROJECTORS w/WIDESCREEN (16:9) NATIVE RESOLUTIONS
================================================== =

WVGA
---------------------------------------------------
848x480 DLP $2,700-$8,600
(these all use the TI Dual Mode Chip so for 4:3 thay also offer a native 800x600 resolution)
PLUS Home Piano HE3100
PLUS Home Piano Avanti HE-3200
Runco Reflection CL-500
InFocus Screenplay 110 (Boxlight 12SF) (Toshiba TDP-MT5)
SIM2 HT200 DM (HT200 DMF)

858x484 LCD $1,800-$2,500
Sony VPL-HS2 Cineza
Panasonic PT-AE100
Panasonic PT-L200U (PT-AE200U)
Philips LC6231


1/4 HD
---------------------------------------------------
960x540 LCD $2,400-$2,800
Panasonic PT-L300U (AE300)
Sanyo PLV-Z1 (Boxlight Home Matinee 1HD)


WXGA
---------------------------------------------------
1280x720 LCD $5,000-$6,000
Epson TW100
Yamaha LPX-500
Toshiba TACP TLP-MT7

1280x720 DLP $10,000-$27,000
Runco Reflection CL-700
InFocus Home Screenplay 7200 (Toshiba TACP TDP-MT8U)
DWIN TransVision TV2 (TV3)
SharpVision XV-Z9000U
SharpVision XV-Z10000U
Yamaha DPX-1000
Marantz VP-12S2
SIM2 Multimedia HT300 (HT300 Plus)
Runco Reflection VX-1000c
Runco VX-5000C

1366x768 LCD $3,000-$20,000
Sony VPL-HS10 Cineza
Sanyo PLV-60HT (Boxlight Home Cinema 13HD)
Sony VPL-VW12HT
Sanyo PLV-70 (Boxlight Home Cinema 20HD)
Runco DLC-2000HD


WSXGA
---------------------------------------------------
1920x1080 LCD $13,000
Lasergraphics LG2001

Like the Dual Mode DLP projectors, this projector actually has two native resolutions: QXGA (2048 x 1536) for 4:3 sources and WSXGA (1920x1080) for 16:9 sources.

This projector has the distinction as being the first projector to be able to display full 1080p HD material naitively with no scaling.

[mike_frontier]

Hey all.

I just got my FP in today. I decided to purchase the 1HD by Boxlight. I got an image on my wall at 96" diagonal and that's with it sitting 13.5' back from the wall with a little bit of lens shift to the left. The zoom was all the way off. This sucker sure does throw a big image. Love it!

Any one know about what screen to go with?

I was thinking of this product called GOO Systems. It can be found at www.goosystems.com any of you have any input about going this way?

Thanks

[Jonathan DA]

I don't see the magic of Screen Goo, it doesn't seem like anything more than you could achieve at HomeDepot with a little Behr Ultrawhite base, some black pigment, and a little pearlesence. Paint that over some blackout fabric or plastex and voila! I know Nils isn't a fan of grayscreens, but they do seem to have a place when your black levels need help and you're willing to make other compromises to improve them. That said, I don't know if a 1HD falls into that category.

I guess the real question is, what's your budget and do you want a fixed screen or a roll up screen?

[mike_frontier]

Jonathan DA,

I like to do a DIY screen. I am really good with crafts and wood so this is not a problem building one. As for budgets I think I like to keep my costs less then $100.00 (labor free included). I just need to know what material I should use for an LCD fp.

Kinda makes sense with grey screen. But I like my wall when hung up not to be so noticeable. I might do something like curtains like Nils did on his screen.

1st impression is quality,, then 2nd is appearance. I like to surprise when my guests come over and they expect to watch an movie on my 32",,, then the lights go off.... curtain comes open and bang.... FP turns on and projects right over my TV set.

I am sure you get the idea.

So any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys.

[Nils Luehrmann]

Mike,

Congrats on your new projector, and welcome to the world of big screen HT!

I got a good look at the Sanyo Z1 (which is the exact same projector as the 1HD) so I think I can give you some useful advice regarding screen choices.

First off, you say you have the projector 13.5' from the screen and that with no zoom you are getting a 96" diagonal image?

If so, then you may want to contact the Studio Experience division of Boxlight, as they have been publishing a very different throw ratio, as has Sanyo. Using their screen size calculator, they say that placing the projector 13.5' away from the screen will produce anywhere between a 112.5" and a 137.1" diagonal image. 112.5" is without the zoom and 137.1" is with the zoom all the way out. Now it is possible to get a 96" wide image (not diagonal) with the advertised throw ratios and a 13.5' throw, so maybe your image is 96" wide?

Regardless, if you are getting a 96" diagonal image than all the better as this projector really doesn't have the 'juice' (lumens) to produce an adequate image, for HT use, larger than 96". And even if you used a high gain screen to boost the brightness, the Z1's resolution and LCD pixel structure will come into play if you are considering a viewing distance to screen width ratio of less than 1.75:1. So for a 96" wide image, that would mean ideally sitting at least 14 feet away (measured from the viewer's eye to the screen). Now this can be subjective depending on how sensitive and how much you are concerned about being able to see the pixel structure, and how important a smooth image is to you.

Going back to the lumen issue, first keep in mind that the larger the image the dimmer it gets, as more light is needed to illuminate a larger area.

In the case of the Z1/1HD, it only has 700 lumens to begin with, and that is without the grayscale set to 6500D. Typically many manufactures advertise lumens with the projector's grayscale cranked up to as bright as possible. So why it may say on paper that the projector has 700 lumens, in fact it may have far less once it is properly calibrated for video.

Sony has been one of the worst when it comes to advertising 'modified' lumens. An ISFed calibrated 10HT produces about 450 lumens, but Sony's specs advertise 1000! In fact the HS10 claims to have 1200 lumens, but I can tell you right now that when I compared the Z1 to the HS10 projected on similar size and gain screens, the Sony was only ever so slightly brighter than the Z1.

From what I saw at the demo last Saturday, the Z1's grayscale is also set above 6500D, probably around 9-10k. if that were true I would guess the Z1 has no more than 500 real lumens to work with and that assumes that the specs are based on an out of the box unit, and not like Sony who bases them on a unit tweaked for max temp grayscale.

Now brightness, like pixel structure, is subjective, but generally for HT use most shoot for a luminance of about 30 foot lamperts. To measure this you divide the actual lumens by the sqft of the image multiplied by the gain of the screen.

In your case, if you use a 96" diagonal screen, then with no gain, you'll get about 18 foot lamperts. If that were the case then I'd recommend going with a high gain screen, perhaps a 1.8 - 2.2 gain screen. I'd certainly stay away from any gray screens, and not just because of their effect on the image, but with the exception of Stewart Screen's FireHawk, they all are usually below 1.0 gain so in effect you will actually loose foot lamperts rather than gain them. Gray screens are really only good for projectors with a great deal of lumens and that suffer poor black levels. Neither of those conditions come into play with the Z1.

Just to sum up, first make sure you identify the image size that you are comfortable with based on comfort and pixel structure. Then calculate luminance, and select a screen material/paint with sufficient gain such that you are not left with either a dim or overly bright image.

If you need some help, I can drop by sometime and run through with you how to calibrate your Z1 and then measure luminance.

[mike_frontier]

Nils,

I should of been more clear on the distance of the image of the screen width.

I was watching Monsters Inc and from the image one side to the other is 96" wide (picture only). I did not get the height b/c it too darn high and I did not have a ladder by me at the time.

Do you think also maybe could of been smaller then by spec b/c of the lens shift?
The 1HD was not sitting directly in front of the wall where the image was shooting at the wall from.
Hope this clears it up some.

As for the offer to help me out I will defiantly take you up on that. I have your phone number so I really say thanks for you offering assistance in helping me getting all my hamsters running properly on my PJ.

[Jonathan DA]

Using Nils recommendation of a 1.8 to 2.2 gain screen may limit your DIY options. A plastex or blackout fabric screen painted with Behr Ultrawhite will produce about a 1.3 gain. You can start mixing pearlesence in with the paint to increase the gain, but you also run the risk of hotspotting, which is a big downer on the image quality. I'm not as big on the super bright image that Nils recommends, my Barco only puts out a fraction of the lumens that a DLP or LCD pj does, and I'm happy with it on a 1.3 gain screen.

You might want to experiment some before settling on a final screen. Blackout fabric only costs about $10 and the paint is about $20. I have an unpainted 45x80 blackout screen already built you can have for $15 if you come pick it up.

[Nils Luehrmann]

Dr. J wrote:

Quote:

I have an unpainted 45x80 blackout screen already built you can have for $15 if you come pick it up.

If I were you Mike, I'd be grabbing the car keys and rushing over to Dr. J's house before he changes his mind!

First of all, that's a great deal.

Second of all that's the size screen I would recommend for your projector in the first place (its about the same size screen as I use). Paint it with Behr Ultrawhite and you'll get about 26 foot lamperts which should be perfectly fine.

For comparison, I also still have a 4x8 sheet of PLAS-TEX which you can use to decide which you like best. For my projector, I saw little if any difference, and the advantages of the PLAS-TEX screen is that it is completely idiot/child proof. You can scrape it, draw on it, throw things at it (which happened a bunch at the Super Bowl party ), and best of all cleaning is as easy as spraying 409 and wiping clean. I wouldn't recommend doing that with a fabric screen.

Regardless, I would definitely take Dr. J up on his offer. Worst case scenario and you end up with a different screen, for only $15 you will be able to confirm what best meets your needs - that's a crazy bargain considering the cost of this hobby.

[Nils Luehrmann]

Mike,

I thought something looked strange regarding your recent post about getting your new projector. Sure enough...

On 2/6/03 Mike F. wrote:

Quote:

I got the Infocus X1. I got an hell of an deal on it. I could not pass it up.

On 2/18/03 Mike F. wrote:

Quote:

I just got my FP in today. I decided to purchase the 1HD by Boxlight.

OK, there must be a story behind the switch. What happened with the X1?

[Dave Elliott]

Hey Nils,

Do you know of anyone around here who has an NEC HT1000? I'm considering it before the rebate expires next week.

All the reviews and reports have been highly favorable, but I'd like to see for myself if its worth the ~$2K it would cost me to upgrade over my LT150 and DVDo.

-Dave