[mike_frontier]

WoW this discussion is getting big! Much bigger then I expected to understand at this moment .

Nils that is great that we now your an ISF certified calibrationist , I might need some help down the road .

I did call a company called Projection People and a guy name Mike (no the other Mike) help me understand some more about projectors, which you guys were really helpfull also. I did mention to Mike about the Infocus X1 and he said it was no where near the quality as the Sanyo Z1 side by side comparison. He said something about the background was not clear as the Sanyo Z1 pic quality. He highly recommend the SanyoZ1 over the X1, but either way he can sell either of the two me,,, but he felt I will be much happier with the Z1. He E-mailed me this link and I was really impressed with it and what it had to offer. What you guys think?

http://www.presentingsolutions.com/p...=387&manuf=138


BTW...... as for screens is it better to make one homemade or buy one? I am willing to learn if it can save me the bucks.

Thanks

[Dave Elliott]

Nils, Colin, Hank, etc....

Since we've trampled the video side of things to death , I'd like to solicit input on speaker placement for my 7.1 upgrade (my Denon 3803 should be here Weds so I should be done by this weekend).

My main concern is the rear 6th/7th speakers (which typically carry the same material, but having 2 rear speakers eliminates sound reversal issues some folks feel distracting in a 6.1 setup).

Both my side surrounds and rear surrounds are the same. Small white speakers with a slanted front, designed to mount flush in a corner and give you a 90 degree firing direction. They can be mounted vertically or horizontally. The drivers are Mid-Tweet-Mid with a metal dome tweeter and 2 3.5"s (if only I could have 6' tall towers for my rears like Colin, sigh...).

My options are to mount them in the back corners along the walls, like this:






OR... to mount them behind the sofa about 6-7' apart, like this:





I think the 2nd scenario might have a better sound to it but then I'd have a plainly visible speaker mounted on the ceiling above my kitchen counter, plus theres no back wall for that side. In the 1st scenario, they'd be hardly noticeable.

I'm not opposed to mounting them in either position, I just would like a few 2nd opinions before I start crawling through the attic

Keep in mind this is just a mockup. The side surrounds will be directly perpendicular to my head when I'm slouching on the couch


-Dave

PS-Now to find a good DTS ES Discrete DVD I haven't already watched .....

[mike_frontier]

2nd choice gives my two thumbs up .

[mike_frontier]

2nd picture gives my two thumbs up .

Since you are running an 7.1 setup the 2 speakers in the rear will sound more of an rear center and equal out even for dialog. With the rears spread out on the 1st picture I think the dialog sound will sound a little more broken up due to angels. Let the surrounds do that. But that is my take on this setup.

[Hank Frankenberg]

Unscientific opinion is placement #2, because of a few posts I've read, NOT from experience, as I only have 5.1 and am in no rush to do 7.1. I do like the placement of your side surrounds, being just a tad behind the sofa. Also, I prefer dipole side surrounds, but realize that many folks like direct firing surrounds. Did you listen to both during your purchase decision process?

BTW folks, Nils has a nickname: "hot jalepeno"

Nils, you are now my official converger.

[Dave Elliott]

Hank,

I have listened to quite a few setups with multipolar speakers. I was originally thinking of getting the CSW Newton S200s (I think someone here has a set?) but I tend to prefer direct. I think that direct, when positioned properly in a big room, can become diffuse enough for the source to dissappear. I'm hoping that is the case. In smaller HT rooms, I think multipolar speakers work really well. But I also listen to music and I really dislike bipoles in multi-channel music like DVD-A (which is why I'd use the direct rear surrounds for music if I were to go di/bipoles).

If anyone has a set of the CSW dipoles (which can be had on ebay for ~$160/pr) I'd love to audition them. My system would be ideal for a comparison.

I have a really big (~18x24') room, so I think 7.1 will add some more rear soundstage. Plus I needed a receiver with component switching anyways, so it was a good opportunity upgrade.

BTW, anyone want to buy a like new Denon AVR2800 receiver or a DVDo iScan?

-Dave

[Jonathan DA]

Configuration 2 conforms toDolby's specifications for Surround EX speaker placement. The lack of a rear wall may make the speakers stand out visually, but from an acoustic stand point it is actually desirable for accurate imaging.

The dipole/bipole/monopole debate was supposed to be settled with the move from Pro-Logic to AC-3. I believe the AC-3 spec states monopole surrounds, but a great many people still find dipoles to offer the most ambient presentation. Personally, I find that dipoles work best in large rooms, while monopoles generally work better in small rooms.

[Nils Luehrmann]

Mike, I checked out that link that the other Mike from Projection People sent you:

aka Bogus Review

I am going to save this link as a great example of why there are many very angry consumers out there that were told one thing only to discover later on that they got duped.

Here are some memorable quotes from that link that still have me grinning away...

Quote:

PLV70, widely regarded by just about everyone as the best in class for home theater,

"everyone" of course refers to the group of salesmen affiliated with Projection People that get commissions from PLV70 sales. I have spent a lot of time tweaking and testing a PLV70 and frankly I was less than impressed. It is certainly far from being best in class!

Quote:

the Z1 represents awesome performance at a shockingly low price, considering the high quality HT image. Especially noteworthy are its high contrast ratio (800:1)

Hmmm, since when did 800:1 contrast ratio rate as being noteworthily high? 1200:1 is pretty good, 2000:1 is great, 3000:1 is the best so far, but 800:1? lol

Quote:

this projector is all it takes to make $3000 big screen TV's look like first class junk!

OH lordy, see, its garbage like this that feeds all the ridiculous misinformation.

Quote:

The Sanyo's only real competition really comes from a couple of new HT projectors sporting DLP technology, such as new entries from Sony and Optoma.

Sony has a DLP unit? No comment is necessary, just pure laughter!

Quote:

In fact consider this - most people consider plasma displays to be the pinnacle of image quality, and the pixel structure on a plasma is more visible than a projector like this!

OMG, now they have gone too far... did they really just put "plasma" and "pinnacle of image quality" in the same sentence???

Quote:

it seems to have at least as much umph as DLP units rated 1200 lumens (or even more).

Yeah... right.

Quote:

For most users, we recommend a high contrast "gray" screen like the Stewart Grayhawk (if budget allows), or DaLite's Da-Mat High Contrast screen.

OK, someone call the cops on these folks. These screens are designed specifically for high lumen projectors. With an 800 lumen LCD projector you are going to loose a significant amount of shadow detail and the picture will look quite dim on any screen larger than 96".

Just to add a little irony into this pathetic excuse for a sales pitch, they go on to rave about the 1/4 HD resolution. Why would that be important? Well the theory is that scaling is easier to resolve and therefore less of a chance for any scaling artifacts if you can scale with a factor of 2. The problem is that first of all there are currently two different HD resolutions being used (1080i and 720p). If you are watching 720p material than the scaling will now be way off 1/4, but here is the real catch... The problem is that this projector has no DVI input, let alone DVI-HDCP, which we now all know is going to be required for displaying HD material. So in the case of the PLV-Z1, HD material would be down scaled to 850x480 which will leave this projector in a scaling dilemma and would certainly have less resolution than that of a NEC HT1000 when displaying HD (or any source for that matter), which once again contradicts their statement...

Quote:

NEC's highly acclaimed (and $5000+ street price) HT1000 has basically the same resolution (number of pixels in use) when handling 16:9 sources like DVD and HDTV.

If Pinocchio wrote this so-called review, his nose would be longer than the state of Texas!

I would strongly recommend you send Mike "The Salesmen" a link to this post and see exactly how he responds.

Now all said and done I am not suggesting the Z1 is a bad machine. For the cost and performance it is a reasonable option to be considered, but it doesn't come close to the standards as described in that link. This is a great example of buyer beware when taking the advice of a source with an obvious agenda.

Be patient Mike, and do your own research, don't get all excited after hearing one person's opinion, especially if that opinion is coming from the person who is trying to sell you something.

[Nils Luehrmann]

Dave,

2nd scenario = (although not having a rear wall is unfortunate)

Also I suggest Dipoles for all four surrounds for no other reason than to provide an excellent sound field for all viewers. The problem I had with direct firing surrounds is that those sitting closer to a specific rear speaker get a very unbalanced surround field. However for just two viewers I would then prefer all the surrounds to be direct firing. From your proposed layout, you might get away with direct firing L/R surrounds, but with the additional seating from the raised futon I would suspect dipoles for the rears would be best.

One thing to consider is that CS also offers a Newton Series surrounds that are switchable to any of the three possible configurations, monopole, bipole, and dipole. This might make even more sense for your 7.1 layout thus allowing you to adjust the sound field that best meets your needs at any given time.

In the meantime, I own a pair of the CS Newton S200s (which can be switched from bipole to dipole, but not monopole). You are more than welcome to borrow them to try out with your system and layout. I have personally been very pleased with the results I get from them and would not hesitate in recommending them to anyone.

[mike_frontier]

Nils,

Thanks man for your opinion I really will take your word for it. I know that sales reps will do anything to make an sale,,,, but thats so sad to hear. I had my hopes on the Sanyo. As I agree patience is what it is going to be. Since I only have about 10 days to either return my 42" 16:9 HDTV to get a FP or just going to have tp keep my 42" since I am still debating which FP to get. The time is ticking and its not getting any slower. So what shall I do, or must I say which shall I get??? Now thats the question.