Rhino Records -- Nice 70's catalog, but...MONO MIXES???

Dick · 03-19-2008, 08:35 PM

First, I appreciate the fact that a lot of music from the 70's that would otherwise never surface on CD has thanks to Rhino. That said... what is this goddamn obsession with mono mixes of original stereo tracks? It is so frustrating for me to have to search elsewhere for stereo copies of songs I once owned in stereo on vinyl LP's, because some moron at Rhino decides we are better off with mono mix-downs. I won't list the titles they have botched - there are too many - but the stereo counterparts were perfectly acceptable and could have been remastered to sound even better. I admit I am a huge true stereo aficionado, but even I understand why some early 60's tracks sound better in mono, when the left channel has the vocals and the right channel the instruments, with nothing between. But this was simply not the case in the 70's. Am I the only one who is pissed off about this? I can't tell you how long it took (and how much money was spent) to find the original stereo mixes of Tony Orlando's (and Dawn's) CANDIDA, or Melanie's PEACE ON EARTH (ACCORDING TO PLAN) or even HITCHIN' A RIDE by Vanity Fair. These songs may not be masterpieces, but they sounded fine in stereo, and for the Rhino producers to decide for us that mono is better makes me really resentful, in the way that I am when a car ten cars in front of me on a narrow curvy road decides to go twenty miles under the speed limit, essentially determining the speed everyone behind him can go. Anyway, rant over.

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MatthewA · 03-20-2008, 02:01 PM

Why couldn't they offer both?

With the Atlantic Records catalog perhaps some of the stuff may not exist in stereo anymore, because of that infamous fire.

Jamey K · 03-20-2008, 07:06 PM

In very few cases, the stereo mix was, far different than the original "hit" mono mix. I totally understand what you're saying about prefering a stereo mix of your favorite song but some stereo mixes, from that era, leave out a key instrument, background vocal, or even replace the original vocal with a different one from another take.

Examples: "Gimme Gimme Good Lovin" by Crazy Elephant. The stereo mix is a completely different from the original hit mono mix. The big drum sound in the hit mix is gone from the stereo version. The keyboards are brought forward, the BG vocals are mixed way low, and the lead vocal is from a different take altogether.

"Bend Me Shape Me" from the American Breed. Everything in the stereo mix is the same from the hit mono version, except ..it is a completely different mix, either from another session or a different engineer.

"I Fought The Law'-Bobby Fuller Four. This one is tough. The stereo mix is great and the only giveaway is in the main vocal. But, it is a different performance than the mono hit version. They were both done in the same session, but they are two seperate perfomances.

In the early 80's, some bands or publishing companies were shopping around -re-recorded stereo versions of songs that never existed in stereo. They might have the original lead singer in most cases or all of the original members in a few cases. But, they were new recordings. Rhino has been the very best in sorting out bad or different versions that were available.

Again, it doesn't make it right but some songs until the mid 70's were not mixed for stereo until after they were hits on AM radio and then there were done in haste or without the original studio participants.

I hope that helps.

Dick · 04-16-2008, 08:38 AM

Yes, thank you, it helps. I was aware that, for instance, Gerry and the Pacemakers' I'LL BE THERE contained a different lead vocal (same singer, different performance) on the stereo version than on the mono single. Some of the Beach Boys stereos I have dug up have somewhat altered vocals. I just wasn't aware this practice had continued so well into the 70's.

Ockeghem · 04-16-2008, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamey K

"I Fought The Law'-Bobby Fuller Four. This one is tough. The stereo mix is great and the only giveaway is in the main vocal. But, it is a different performance than the mono hit version. They were both done in the same session, but they are two seperate perfomances.

Not to mention a perfect example of how (IMO) triplets ought to be played. Often times, these are emphasized (accented) so heavily in some musics that they can lose the subtle effect of their intent. As an aside, I prefer this particular Fuller tune in A-flat major moreso than I do in G major, as the ethos is markedly different. I imagine the original key was G major (or maybe even A major?), but thank goodness for some playback equipment of yesteryear on various radio stations moving at different rates of speed.

BTW, I prefer Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band in monophonic more than I do those stereophonic mixes that omit one or another of the components mentioned above. George Martin did as well, for similar reasons.

Jamey K · 04-21-2008, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick

Yes, thank you, it helps. I was aware that, for instance, Gerry and the Pacemakers' I'LL BE THERE contained a different lead vocal (same singer, different performance) on the stereo version than on the mono single. Some of the Beach Boys stereos I have dug up have somewhat altered vocals. I just wasn't aware this practice had continued so well into the 70's.

Much of it had to do with smaller labels buying the recorded song from either the band or the composer's publishing company. Once the major labels starting gobbling up the smaller ones, they didn't release anything they didn't own.

Beach Boys are a great example of alternate takes. There is a recent Stereo mix of California Girls, that was made from the original hit version and it's really very good. The album it came from "Summer Days(and Summer Nights) used Capitol's "Duophonic" process that took mono songs into stereo by mixing frequencies instead of seperating the tracks, so the "stereo" version prior to...six years ago wasn't stereo at all. There are alternate takes of everything recorded from '63 on, sitting in the Capitol vaults.

Brian Wilson mixed everything into mono in the 60's and not because of his deaf right ear. He (& Buck Owens too) mixed into a small speaker to catch the flavor of AM radio. Beginning with the Little Duece Coupe album, everything was recorded in whatever multi-track format that was available...so authentic stereo versions could and should be done.

I have come across a "better" stereo version of a 60's song that was better than the original Mono mix. Check out "Come On Down To My Boat" by Every Mother's Son in stereo some time. Same tracks..different remix engineer and a much better verison!

Jamey K · 04-21-2008, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ockeghem

Not to mention a perfect example of how (IMO) triplets ought to be played. Often times, these are emphasized (accented) so heavily in some musics that they can lose the subtle effect of their intent. As an aside, I prefer this particular Fuller tune in A-flat major moreso than I do in G major, as the ethos is markedly different. I imagine the original key was G major (or maybe even A major?), but thank goodness for some playback equipment of yesteryear on various radio stations moving at different rates of speed.

Oh good call!!!! The original version was recorded in El Paso while Fuller was still in high school on his own label "Exector". The later version was re-recorded in Los Angeles. Supposedly...and the band denied it, the L.A. stereo version had Fuller singing " I miss my baby and a good f***". In the mono version, he is clearly singing " and the good fun". We'll never know but I cant imagine a "blue" version being released in any form in 1965.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ockeghem

BTW, I prefer Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band in monophonic more than I do those stereophonic mixes that omit one or another of the components mentioned above. George Martin did as well, for similar reasons.

A completely different mix! The Monkees' "Headquarters' was released about a month before Sgt. Pepper and it too had a different Mono mix. There is a rumor, that once the EMI sale is finished, special double CD's of Sgt.Pepper & The White Album, will be released with both the Mono and remastered Stereo versions.

One final catch....the Mono version of "Please Please Me" is a different vocal performance than the stereo. It's easy to spot ....the stereo version has a miffed vocal from John Lennon, in the last verse! McCartney is singing one thing and Lennon another. George Martin left it for the stereo version, because the performance was so good.

Ok...I lied...one FINAL FINAL catch. The stereo version of "Montego Bay" by Bobby Bloom has a verse of "Oh What A Beautiful Morning" at the tail end. The mono version fades in the chorus.

Cool huh?

Ockeghem · 04-21-2008, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamey K

Oh good call!!!! The original version was recorded in El Paso while Fuller was still in high school on his own label "Exector". The later version was re-recorded in Los Angeles. Supposedly...and the band denied it, the L.A. stereo version had Fuller singing " I miss my baby and a good f***". In the mono version, he is clearly singing " and the good fun". We'll never know but I cant imagine a "blue" version being released in any form in 1965.

Jamey,

Wow, that's very interesting information. I had never heard (or read) that before. Thanks. I am still saddened when I think of Fuller's passing, esp. under such mysterious circumstances.

Quote:

A completely different mix! The Monkees' "Headquarters' was released about a month before Sgt. Pepper and it too had a different Mono mix. There is a rumor, that once the EMI sale is finished, special double CD's of Sgt.Pepper & The White Album, will be released with both the Mono and remastered Stereo versions.

I would tend to believe this rumor. A very good friend of mine is personal friends (I kid you not) with Pete Best. As such, he has been able to get some very interesting recordings of the Fabs and has sent these along to me. Over the past year or two, he has sent me over seventy CDs of alternate takes of virtually every song they did ca. 1962-1970. I have one CD with eleven (11!) versions of Don't Bother Me on it, including one in E-flat minor! Not surprisingly, this is my favorite version of that tune. So very dark and ominous in that key. I also have Alternate Please Please Me, Alternate With the Beatles, Alternate A Hard Day's Night, etc. (These are the titles given to the albums by my friend. He also makes up some very cool labels to go with each of the CDs. The alternate CDs of Anthology material alone are about six CDs worth.)

One of my most prized possessions is an autographed picture of Pete (along with John, Paul, and George in the picture--the one that is on the cover of The Savage Young Beatles, I believe) that was sent along as a gift to me a couple of years ago. If I want (although I honestly don't have the time!) my buddy told me that I could meet Pete in person, and coordinate a Beatles event in my state with Pete's endorsement. My friend (he too plays drums) has also sat in with Pete's band, and recently sent along a couple of recordings of The Pete Best Combo. About three years ago, I learned that Pete--by virtue of Anthology I, Anthology II, and Anthology III--became a millionaire off of the royalties. I was very, very pleased to learn this. He's a great guy, and very generous, according to my friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamey K

One final catch....the Mono version of "Please Please Me" is a different vocal performance than the stereo. It's easy to spot ....the stereo version has a miffed vocal from John Lennon, in the last verse! McCartney is singing one thing and Lennon another. George Martin left it for the stereo version, because the performance was so good.

Yep, that's the one. The other version of Please Please Me also has the over-emphasized (probably from being too close to the microphone, if I were to hazard a guess) "In my heart...". Speaking of George Martin, did you know that he--to this day--doesn't know if Ringo or Andy White is playing drums on the released version of Love Me Do? It took seventeen takes, and coincidentally reached no. 17 on the charts.

Good post, BTW!

Robin_B · 05-01-2008, 12:27 PM

Well put me firmly in the I want it in stereo camp. I don't care if the hit mono version had different vocals had instruments the stereo didn't or whatever. I just prefer stereo sound. Motown starting doing this too releasing albums in mono only or at least all the early stuff in mono. I can definitely understand in the case of fake stereo. If a track was recorded in mono then it should stay in mono.



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