Why do classical cds have so much hiss?

Jonathan T. · 05-31-2005, 01:10 PM

I may be basing this on too small sample size, but I have noticed, since purchasing my new speakers, that classical music has a very high volume hiss in the background. At first I thought it was my equipment, but after a through testing of each component, I determined that it was in the source material.

I noticed it most severley on the orchestral compositions on the Lion King soundtrack, and it was quite pronounced on my star wars trilogy soundtracks (the newest versions).
It was also noticable on Alanis Morrisette unplugged, which obvously is not classical, but it is recorded live, so I wonder if that has something to do with it.

Philip Hamm · 05-31-2005, 02:02 PM

Those soundtracks aren't classical. I'd guess it's from the recording process, it's a lot tougher to keep things quiet when you're room micing acoustic instruments with many mics than close micing loud stuff like like guitar amps and drums.

Garrett Lundy · 05-31-2005, 02:16 PM

On many older "classical" releases there was tape hiss & other artifcats that came from mastering the original tape. Yes, this meant nothing was "tampered with" during production to bring you the truest-possible sound from the tape, but it also means you have tape hiss. I have one recording of Beethoven's 14th Sonata where the 'clicking' from the reel-to-reel is audible.

Usually you have to either live with it, or wait for a new recording (or a remaster job) to come to market.

Jonathan T. · 05-31-2005, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Those soundtracks aren't classical

Perhaps orchestral is a better term to use. But there is no denying the classical inspiration.

Philip Hamm · 05-31-2005, 03:40 PM

Right on! And the same technical concerns apply when recording orchestral works. However, the problem of hiss on older classical recordings is often because of old fashoned analog tapes. Very different thing.

**HTF Ads**

05-31-2005, 03:57 PM

If you frequent the Steve Hoffman forums, you may note that some members there actually consider a lack of tape hiss on older, recently remastered recording as evidence that a recording has been futzed with with "No Noise" or the like.

It seems to me that when The Beatles "Let it Be, Naked" came out, there was lots of carping about the lack of hiss.

Then again, I read a quote there from Paul McCartney (not sure in response to what) that said in effect "When John Lennon sang, hiss did not come out of his mouth".

But back to SHF, its often argued that dialing out the tape hiss takes too much off of the top end, and robs the recording or the right amount of sparkle and air.

Brian

Jeff Ulmer · 05-31-2005, 05:28 PM

The question in my mind is what was intended when the recording was made? If there is enough hiss that it is distracting, and the artist didn't intend it to be there, then why should the audience feel it should be there? Hiss is a technical defect in the analogue recording medium, and in the electronics that captured and processed sound. As a producer and engineer, I do not find hiss any more acceptable than 60 cycle hum or unintended distortion. The McCartney quote says it all.

There is no real reason why orchestral recordings should have any more hiss generated during tracking than a modern pop album. The use of multiple room mics is no excuse, hiss is not present in the air, it is induced by either the tape or electronics.

Philip Hamm · 06-01-2005, 11:15 AM

Quote:

There is no real reason why orchestral recordings should have any more hiss generated during tracking than a modern pop album. The use of multiple room mics is no excuse, hiss is not present in the air, it is induced by either the tape or electronics.

I'm sorry, but close micing a singer or an amp or a drumset or a sax player in a booth is a hell of a lot different than overheads on a whole string section in a huge room full of people. The technical challenges are considerable and completely different for orchestral recording and pop/rock/jazz small ensemble recording.

If a better sounding mic also has some hiss, what do you do? Use a worse sounding mic? No engineer is going to do that, and many engineers favor tube mics made in the 40s, 50s, and 60s because they sound great.

06-01-2005, 12:24 PM

Here is a link to a discussion at SHF regarding The Beatles "1" CD, but scroll through and there is also a discussion about "Let It Be, Naked".

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/sh...ad.php?t=53954

FWIW, I like the sound of LIBN, which "Stereophile" deemed a Recording of the Month.

But don't try to sell that over at SHF!

Brian

Man-Fai Wong · 06-01-2005, 01:40 PM

Interesting topic, especially since I do listen to classical music a lot

and find the topic of noise reduction of interest after spending time delving into photography (and how digital NR can impact image quality there).

I can't say I have any "golden ear" or anything like that, but I tend to agree that heavy doses of NR can kill the "sparkle and air" in the music. Certainly, it's very evident in the various consumer available NR methods. I guess it really depends on how good the NR method is *plus* how judicious the application is. This is true w/ photography (and home theater video playback also) and seems true also w/ audio.

While it's true that too much noise is a bad thing, the thing is everyone has a different threshold for what's too much. Personally, I don't mind a little noise at all (both in my audio and my photographs -- and films as well). Sometimes, it's just unavoidable unless you're willing to rob the recording of some of its "musicality". And sometimes, a little noise might even add to the ambiance and mood of the music although I think that's probably much less true w/ music than w/ photographs (and films). I'm not suggesting one should actually add noise where there is none (for music anyway), but just that a little of it might not be as bad as one thinks. OTOH, for photographs, I (and many others) *do* sometimes intentionally add noise or shoot for grainier output among other things -- and many also find certain camera makers go a tad too far w/ in-camera NR too.

I think probably what you really need in the music industry in this regard is to develop a good consumer product for applying NR during playback. Then, the purists can have the choice to avoid NR completely while everyone else can have his/her choice on what's the appropriate amount of NR for his/her own listening threshold. I mean if we can have a market for equalizers (whether as standalone or extra feature), why not noise reducers for those who want them? Certainly, there's gotta be less of an issue regarding artistic intent w/ audio NR than w/ equalizers, no?

RE: the mic-ing issue, I wonder if part of the problem isn't the fact that you have to apply more juice(?) to the recording process in that scenario vs close mic-ing. Whenever you must apply additional amplification/power to the process, you're bound to increase noise, etc. no matter whether it's audio or video or still photography, etc. -- that's just a fact of life and physics.

And BTW, if we're actually talking about classical music recordings, I'd think heavy breathing noise, audience noise, etc. can be far more annoying than a little tape hiss or other such relatively flat background noise sources that are easier to tune out. Heck, I recently bought an iPod, and now, I know why some here hate the "audio gap" so much.

Instead of annoying noise that come suddenly, I get truly appalling, abrupt cuts in sound that feel like a violent assault on my senses whenever I listen to tracks that are meant to be played uninterrupted -- and there are plenty of those w/ classical music.

_Man_