Lee Scoggins

It seems no one here wants to do anything but slander SACD. There are 80-90 titles released every month and is supported by over 200 hundred labels. Niche yes, but certainly a thriving one among audiophiles.

I think people should remember that this story from the man who predicted DSOTM on DVDA before SACD. I have yet to see that nor have we seen SACD 2 as predicted by Jerry.



Jason, I have numerous times expressed my disappointment with Sony Music for not releasing more titles so I agree with you that they should do more. Sony has plenty of players out right now so I think they are very supportive from a hardware standpoint. Their line ranges from $149 in price up to $3K right now. That's the bulk of the buying market. If you want fancier, there are roughly 3 dozen models out from high end manufacturers and more appearing everyday like Steve McCormacks.

There is no evidence that Sony is dropping support in North America Marc. In fact Sony continues to offer new titles, not as much as we would like, into the market. We have seen releases by Indigo Girls and others in the last month or two by Sony.

I remain hopeful that rumors about Springsteen's catalog will turn out to be true.

no fears alone at night she's sailing through the crowd
in her ears the phones are tight and the music's playing loud
~skateaway

Jack Briggs

I sort of dread these SACD-alive-and-well-or-DOA threads. Let's try to be civil here. Debate is fine, but nothing personal. Okay, all?

Marc Colella

You're treating SACD like a family member. These are the feelings people have on the failure of the format - and it's alright to have these feelings. Noone here is making it a personal vendetta against the format.
Hell, some on the forum even ordered some Living Stereo discs last week - myself included (although they haven't shipped yet ).



There's no definitive evidence, which is why I said "I get the feeling...". I've seen formats die even though there were releases up until the last minute of pulling the plug. It just seems that Sony has lost their faith in the format. Why else would they be releasing very few titles and SACD hardware?



Even if Springsteens catalog gets released, can that be considered enough of a commitment? I honestly don't think it's much. After releasing the Dylan catalog, Sony went into hybernation. Will they do the same after releasing the Springsteen catalog?

Phil A

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I love back catalog stuff. However, back catalog stuff will do nothing to push something beyond a niche format that may hang on 5-20 yrs? - or who knows how long. Until there is a committment from the major studios to put current releases on hi-rez, it is doomed to be a niche format that will likely die a slow death. Did not Warner not that long ago claim they would release current stuff on DVD-A on a regular basis? Sony's CEO is doing no different and just paying lip service to not knock their proprietary format. This is not slandering SACD. Look at the Dylan hybrids. They have been released as regular remastered CDs at a a slightly lower cost to consumers. Corporate cheerleading is expected. That does not equate to real hard support.

Mark Anthony

What really amuses me, as an audiophille who has just got his first combo player that can play anything, is the bickering and continuous avalanch of propaganda that seems to form the basis of a good portion of threads on this music part of the htf board, and has done for months if not years.

The majority of the public are currently disinterested in hi-fi, and even less in hi-res and multichannel hi-fi, why else is i-pod, bose and b&o so successfull!

The majority of that public, that some would like to sway towards these hi-res products do not view these boards, so I am really perplexed as to why certain people keep making propaganda and persusive style posts, frequently starting new ones, as to how good format x is, and why someone should buy it - when the people that are reading this board have a higher than average understanding of HT, hi-fi and most things related to those topics - and therefore know whether they want to buy it or not!

Given the general lack of titles and the availability of players than can play both formats regardless, its all fairly mute, especially on here!

Some of the retorts to the above posts, almost seem as if certain people are lying in wait to pounce on anything said that they disagree with, so that they can be dismissive or personal against the poster - further rendering the validity of said threads useless to the average jo, and even more so to technically aware as it all seems tit for tat with arguments turned on head to get one up on the other.

It's all so unecessary, anyway i've had my say - one of very few I make on the htf - i'm gonna watch a film, or enjoy listening to some hi-res music - or maybe a normal cd!

M

imported_Brian-W

I'm starting to accept that SACD and DVD-A were formats to "test the waters" of public perception and acceptance, which has been dismal thus far.

I'm still waiting for releases I'd want to buy, and SACD could've trounced DVD-A if Sony had pushed hybrid from the get go.

Anyways, what I see *possibly* happening is this:

- Blu-Ray is accepted as the new 'versatile' format
- 50GB discs are released as standard

Why 50GB?

- The movie
- all the extras and then some
- The Playstation 3 game included on the disc *
- The soundtrack included on the disc in stereo and multichannel *
- The music video(s) included *

* = "unlockable" by the consumer for a 'nominal' fee.

This will allow the broadest penetration for music/film/game companies (when there is this much cross-over) and provide a new model for revenue generation.

I can see it now, I go to watch Spiderman 14 on my PS-3 after I buy the movie for $20, and suddenly I'm presented the option "Purchase the Spiderman PS-3 game now for an additional $20" instead of blowing the typical $50.

Then again, I could be wrong. But there is a phone jack (maybe broadband by time of release) on the back of Blu-Ray recorders now...could be used ala DivX.

Lee Scoggins

Not at all Marc. I just think we should be thankful for Super Audio and DSD since it has given us a way to appreciate older and newer music in finer detail than ever before. I think this format is much like the beloved old DCC and MoFi formats...a way to get some great recordings out in a way that sounds better.



It's hard for me to believe this when you have said the format is dead. That just lacks credibility given the volume of titles out each month.

It is also hard to believe since the thread was started by me as an upbeat discussion about Sony's commitment. But others here jumped in and brought up format war issues. I think it would have been better to share those discussions in another thread.

You don't have to love SACD but to say it is dying is simply not true. If anything Sony is signaling its commitment by keeping hirez off DualDisc.



As I stated before, Sony has improved the hardware including a cheap carousal player and players at all price points from beer budget to audiophile. On the software side Sony has been slow from Day 1 but look at Universal's great upcoming titles...Elton John, Eric Clapton, Mercury Living Presence. There's a lot to be happy about.



Phil, for the record I was not arguing for mainstream acceptance which is something I gave up on a while ago. I am happy with niche status as it may actually help insure better sonics.



There are approx. 2,500 titles on SACD and over 40 models of SACD players so there is no problem with SACD if you want it. You can get started for $149 or less.



Working on records I see a bit of a different view. I see and hear about Sony pro reps coming in to talk about the format and what DSD workstations can do and new features of such. It is just not Idei talking up the format, it's a constant introduction of new hardware at both the pro and consumer levels.



Mark,

There are many here who have both SACD and DVDA. As a part-time engineer with experience in both formats, I like to share my knowledge about what the advantages of hirez are. If a few want to try after the discussion then fine, if other's don't then fine. This board is often about people sharing feelings about sound quality and enthusiasm over a particular album or musician. That is, in fact, the point of this board to discuss music. I don't think you can have an intelligent discussion of music without discussing the advances of both hirez formats. I'm outspoken in terms of DSD because I see it as a real sonic innovation and I get excited when I listen to a well done SACD on my stereo.

Take the Alison Krauss Live SACD. I love her playing and that of her band. I don't think I could get the realism of her fiddle and the dobro without the use of the DSD recording technology.

At the end of the day, it's all about enjoying music. Some of us feel that higher rez formats allow that to happen more easily and I personally feel that long listening sessions are less fatiguing when listening to either format, DVDA or SACD.

no fears alone at night she's sailing through the crowd
in her ears the phones are tight and the music's playing loud
~skateaway

Rob Gardiner

Excellent point.

I have a vast digital music collection and 99.9% of it is on regular CD (I have Pet Sounds as my single DVD-A title).

I would have more enthusiasm about Sony's commitment to hi-res if they were to back up their press releases with actual products. What excuse is there for them to continue releasing CD only products? I collect actual Japanese recording artists on the Sony Japan label and even these artists get the shaft when it comes to SACD. Puffy has released 2 albums and 1 single in the last year. None of these were SACDs. Pizzicato Five re-issued 4 albums and a 2-disc greatest hits / live album this spring. None of these were SACD. To re-iterate, these are artists on (or distributed by) Sony Japan. If at least one of these releases were available on SACD I would be inclined to experiment with the format.

Meanwhile Sony is preparing their next generation video game console / movie player. The PS3 will have Blu-Ray support. My last console was the original Nintendo, and I have never owned any HD video equipment but I am inclined to check out this unit when it comes out. Will it support SACD? Probably not.

Yes, Sony has put out quite a few jazz reissues in SACD, but frankly I just got done replacing my 16 bit copies with the Legacy 24-bit mastered versions and I'm not inclined to invest in a new format for the sake of a dozen Mingus & Monk albums when NEW RELEASES in Japan fail to support the format. From where I sit, SACD does look like a dead (or dying) format.

Sony, PLEASE re-issue the entire P5 catalog in SACD. PLEASE release the next Puffy album in SACD. PLEASE add SACD support to the PS3. This would have a far greater effect than any number of press releases.

EDIT: To be fair, I also have to ask, why is there only one Beach Boys album on DVD-A? Why was LET IT BE NAKED not released on DVD-A? How about the newest MODEST MOUSE album? Or the newest SUPER FURRY ANIMALS album? There are one or two SINATRA albums on DVD-A. Why is that?

Lee Scoggins

If you are a jazz lover then SACD is a great format notwithstanding Sony's small release slate...look at the Telarc, Chesky, Fantasy, Concord, APO, Verve, Eighty Eights, and Groove Note albums out in jazz....there is a lot to buy and listen to.

no fears alone at night she's sailing through the crowd
in her ears the phones are tight and the music's playing loud
~skateaway

DanFe

A small label perhaps, but Cala Records intimated to me in an email that they will be releasing some of their things on SACD.

Will_B