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09-29-2004, 10:54 PM
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#31 of 91 
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Member
Location: Knoxville, TN
Join Date: Jun 2000
Local Time: 06:27 PM
Local Date: 11-18-2008
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Did ya'all know that the Mark Knopfler SA-CD is a Warner Brothers release?
www.acousticsounds.com
They have it, my previous link that I just edited out didn't work.
European, I presume at that price. Why does hi-rez feel like a shell game? What next, Sony DVD-A's? Actually, that would be good, like some kind of truce.
Rachael, the big disc cat! I used to be looking for Hi-Vision Laserdiscs & D-Theater tapes, now I'm looking for HD-DVD's and Blu-rays.
I survived the AFI top 100 Film Challenge! I've seen them all.
favourite saying: hard feelings are for park benches... sit on that!
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09-30-2004, 12:38 AM
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#32 of 91
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Member
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Local Date: 11-18-2008
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Sony DualDiscs...
If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.
KevinVision 7.1 ...
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09-30-2004, 01:28 AM
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#33 of 91
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Wes
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Location: Salt Lake City
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Is not Dual Disc basically a DVD-A with a built on CD? So Sony is supporting DVD-A in a round about way? Would not Dual Disc be in direct competition with SACD?  |
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09-30-2004, 02:20 AM
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#34 of 91
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Join Date: Jul 1999
Local Time: 02:27 PM
Local Date: 11-18-2008
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Mark Knopfler's new disc Shangri-La came out on SACD today. I can't wait to hear it.
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Lee, look at this link below,since when WB started doing SACDs? Am I missing something here or is it just a typo.
http://store.acousticsounds.com/brow...words=NL092904 |
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09-30-2004, 03:24 AM
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#35 of 91
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Member
Join Date: May 1999
Local Time: 10:27 PM
Local Date: 11-18-2008
Posts: 8,065
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Quote:
Did ya'all know that the Mark Knopfler SA-CD is a Warner Brothers release?
www.acousticsounds.com
They have it, my previous link that I just edited out didn't work.
European, I presume at that price. Why does hi-rez feel like a shell game? What next, Sony DVD-A's? Actually, that would be good, like some kind of truce.
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Rachael,
It's a typo. That is the Mercury Records import SACD. Not Warner.
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09-30-2004, 08:37 AM
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#36 of 91
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Lee says:
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This is really looking at the glass as half full. In the past year Sony has introduced an inexpensive carousal player, a brand new 9000ES flagship, unveiled the DR-1 in Japan, and further publicized the Qualia SACD player at its opening of the NYC store. In addition, Oxford has revealed several new pro products including revised DSD workstations.
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Wow. A couple of models and you think that's good? How many DVD player models have they introduced in that time? If they were 100% behind the format, every DVD player that has a target MSRP of > $100 would have SA-CD playback included.
You brought up the subject, if you can't deal with people pointing out facts, don't bring it up.
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Sony has been strong on the hardware side John...the better argument would be on the software side but even here some 80-90 new titles per month being released.
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This discussion is about Sony's SA-CD support, Sony isn't releasing 80-90 new titles per month. I don't even think they're releasing 8 or 9 new titles per quarter at this point.
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I don't know why you are so down on Super Audio. It's a great sounding format without the fussiness of LP and there are some great recordings out there.
I think it is like the MoFi or DCC for the 2000s. We should appreciate that.
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- Technical performance is roughly on a level of 20bit/48kHz, above 25kHz noise overrides even cymbals which radiate the most amount of energy above 20kHz
- Inability to handle DSD in consumer gear with tools for room correction such as YPAO, MCACC, MRC, Lexicon RC, and others
- No defined support on either next generation media at this time (Blu-ray or HD-DVD) even though Sony is a principal member of the Blu-ray group.
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The point of the thread was the high level support SACD enjoys at Sony and how they are trying to get more label support as Dan says.
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It is not high level support from the two most important areas at Sony, the record label and the hardware.
We're still waiting on that car deck that has supposedly now been in executives cars for 2+ years.
Cheers,
Surround Music Enthusiast / Curmudgeon in Training
Opinions are my own, not representative of the publication I write for.
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09-30-2004, 10:33 AM
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#37 of 91
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Member
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Quote:
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Sony isn't releasing 80-90 new titles per month. I don't even think they're releasing 8 or 9 new titles per quarter at this point....Technical performance is roughly on a level of 20bit/48kHz, above 25kHz noise overrides even cymbals which radiate the most amount of energy above 20kHz
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First, That is the total for SACD releases which is pretty good for a niche format.
Second, DSD performance exceeds 48khz. Most engineers feel that DSD equates to about 24/352khz. Many of us can hear a slight improvement from 192khz sampling although that sounds good. You can't easily equate DSD to PCM since the former looks at height changes and the latter looks at height magnitude...therefore there is no mathematical way. The best way is to use your ears.
Third, all the audiophile engineers I know with the exception of Mark Waldrep think that cymbals sound more natural and realistic in DSD. No one I know of can hear the outer band noise on SACD.
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Is not Dual Disc basically a DVD-A with a built on CD? So Sony is supporting DVD-A in a round about way?
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Sony is not supporting DVDA. They committed to DualDisc but not the DVDA part of the spec.
Lewis, Warner has released SACDs in Hong Kong. And a number of titles like the Mark Knopfler have come out in Europe on sister labels to Warner, ie. the artist has different labels based on geography.
no fears alone at night she's sailing through the crowd
in her ears the phones are tight and the music's playing loud
~skateaway
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09-30-2004, 10:54 AM
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#38 of 91
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Member
Join Date: Jun 1999
Local Time: 10:27 PM
Local Date: 11-18-2008
Posts: 1,645
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Quote:
Is not Dual Disc basically a DVD-A with a built on CD?
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It's a DVD/CD hybrid. There's nothing about the DVD side that forces it to be a DVD-A ... it could be a DVD-Video-only side, or a DVD-ROM-only side. |
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09-30-2004, 12:26 PM
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#39 of 91
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Lee says:
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First, That is the total for SACD releases which is pretty good for a niche format.
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You made this about Sony's support for SA-CD in the thread title. Sony's SA-CD title output is abyssmal. WBs DVD-A title output is abyssmal (which I said up front).
You bring up all these other labels, even though the discussion is about Sony. Universal is (at this time) the most active major in high resolution.
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Second, DSD performance exceeds 48khz. Most engineers feel that DSD equates to about 24/352khz. Many of us can hear a slight improvement from 192khz sampling although that sounds good. You can't easily equate DSD to PCM since the former looks at height changes and the latter looks at height magnitude...therefore there is no mathematical way. The best way is to use your ears.
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You need to look at the levels of ultrasonic content contained in the various and sundry instruments. Cymbals have the greatest level of ultrasonic content, radiating ~40% of their acoustic energy above 20kHz.
It has been demonstrated (and peer reviewed) in the Journal of AES that even cymbals with their abundant HF energy are below the noise floor around 25kHz. Ergo, all you are getting above 25kHz is noise. Harmon muted trumpet is 2nd on the list, but it's nowhere near 40% of its acoustic energy.
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Third, all the audiophile engineers I know with the exception of Mark Waldrep think that cymbals sound more natural and realistic in DSD. No one I know of can hear the outer band noise on SACD.
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It's "out of band noise" not "outer band noise". The point is very simple. If all you have is noise above 25kHz, you aren't producing better performance than dithered 48kHz PCM.
Well okay, really if we're going to be picky and follow Nyquist literally you'd need just a dab more than 50kHz.
Bob Ludwig thinks DSD and 24/96K are roughly comparable in sound quality and 24/192K is best. So there's two highly respected individuals with that opinion.
David Chesky might still be capturing everything at 24/96K, I haven't talked with him in a while.
Surround Music Enthusiast / Curmudgeon in Training
Opinions are my own, not representative of the publication I write for.
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09-30-2004, 01:19 PM
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#40 of 91
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Member
Join Date: May 1999
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And a number of titles like the Mark Knopfler have come out in Europe on sister labels to Warner, ie. the artist has different labels based on geography.
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Mercury (and One Little Indian, etc) are not 'sister' labels to Warner. Warner has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Knopfler's new album is on SACD in Europe. Some artists are just on different labels in different parts of the world.
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Lewis, Warner has released SACDs in Hong Kong.
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Not any more. Only a few until Warner Corporate found out what was going on.
Kind of like how Sony Music would like to release DVD-A but Sony Corporate squashes it.
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09-30-2004, 01:21 PM
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#41 of 91
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Join Date: Jul 1999
Local Time: 02:27 PM
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Second, DSD performance exceeds 48khz. Most engineers feel that DSD equates to about 24/352khz. Many of us can hear a slight improvement from 192khz sampling although that sounds good. You can't easily equate DSD to PCM since the former looks at height changes and the latter looks at height magnitude...therefore there is no mathematical way.
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You can always compare it's S/N ratio,or dynamic range,which are analog measurments.Check out John Atkinson SACD measurments,he constantly brings up the fact that SACD's upper treble[audiable band] has less resolution then conventional CD.He's not exactly in the anti SACD camp. He just being objective. |
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