What's the point to a 'hidden track'?

MarkHastings · 05-11-2004, 04:04 PM

Ok, when they first started doing this, it was a fun novelty, but it seems like every CD I get has one. What's the deal? It's about as annoying as Easter Eggs on DVD's.

The real question up for debate is, is there some sort of legal (or cost) thing involved with a hidden (or bonus) track? or is it just flat out a novelty?

I mean, I remember when CD's first came out, they used to put 'bonus' tracks on CD's (and not on the casettes). I assume this was probably because casette manufacturing would cost per minute. I'm sure there was an increase in cost if you went over 60 minutes (because they needed to add more physical tape to the casette), but the CD process won't cost any more to "fill it up"?

If this were true, why do they still do this? Is it to make more work for those who want to 'rip' to MP3's? Do they pay per track and putting 2 songs on one track makes it a cheap way to get 14 songs but only pay for 13?

Or am I just looking too much into this?

AricB · 05-11-2004, 04:21 PM

I've seen where people have done it with covers of songs, so i think they dont have to credit the songwriters? and some have been limited pressings, some of Nirvana's Nevermind had an extra track but 2 of 3 copies I've had didnt?

MarkHastings · 05-11-2004, 04:42 PM

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they dont have to credit the songwriters?

I forgot to add that in my first post (i.e. not listing the track)...I was going to ask what would be the advantage of a not listing a track on a CD and the above answer seems to make sense.

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and some have been limited pressings

I was thinking that might be the case (this way they don't need to produce 2 different sets of jacket art), but some CD's will say that there is a bonus track right in the song listing (on the back).

It's like the DVD's that list Easter Eggs as extras.

Mike Broadman · 05-11-2004, 05:13 PM

What I really hate is when a hidden track isn't even a seperate track, but just part of another one. Like when the last song is 4 minutes, but the track is 10 minutes, which consists of the song, than 4 minutes of nothing, than a two minute "cute" ditty to top it off. So now I can't put that last song onto a mix or anything.

AnthonyC · 05-11-2004, 08:12 PM

Exactly. That's why after buying the UK In Utero CD with a bonus track, I went out and bought the US one too.

**HTF Ads**

Tony-B · 05-11-2004, 08:48 PM

Aric, here's the story about Endless Nameless, the hidden track on Nevermind...

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Some copies of the American compact disc contain the hidden track "Endless, Nameless." It's unlisted, but can be found about ten minutes after "Something In The Way" ends (13:51 of track 12). The song, which can also be found on some Come As You Are singles, was rumored to have been accidentally omitted from the first pressing in America. (Nevermind: Nirvana reports that the first pressing totaled 46,251 copies, though the book is vague about the format.)

When the mistake was realized, the song was put on subsequent pressings of the CD. The problem, though, is that there is no way to distinguish a CD with the song from a CD without it (that we know of). The easiest way to check is simply to compare the length of the disc in a CD player.

"Endless, Nameless" was included on American CDs for several years, but in the late 1990s DGC stopped this practice. The song can probably still be found, though, on at least one European pressing of the disc. In fact, despite the commonly believed misconception that the song was only available in the United States, "Endless, Nameless" has apparently always been available on CDs made in the United Kingdom, and possibly Germany, too.

(From http://www.nirvanadiscography.com)

My copy of Nevermind, which I bought earlier on in the year, does not have Endless, Nameless. However, thanks to the magic of the internet, I have the song downloaded.

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I've seen where people have done it with covers of songs

I have seen that too. My copy of XIII by Mushroomhead has a cover of Crazy by Seal a minute after the end of the last track. However, in the booklet they do give credit to Seal.

Mike Broadman, you could just rip the last song into MP3 and use a program like Adobe Audition (formerly Cool Edit) to seperate the hidden track from the normal one.

Tim Hoover · 05-11-2004, 08:49 PM

In some cases, hidden tracks are last-minute additions after the artwork has been completed and produced, ie "Mr E's Beautiful Blues" from The Eels Daisies of the Galaxy. This is also the case w/ The Clash' "Train In Vain" which was a last-minute addition after the record jacket had been completed. My guess is that it's only remained an unlisted track in subsequent CD pressings to stay true to the original vinyl...

Yee-Ming · 05-11-2004, 09:27 PM

Not including the track on the listings won't affect liability to pay copyright royalties to the songwriter, since the song is there. As for credit, I'm not sure how guild rules affect this issue, but I'm pretty sure it won't affect the money issue -- which is the important one, innit?

It's one thing to include another unlisted track as a bonus, but it's rather annoying to "hide" it after 10-15 mins of silence. IIRC Robbie Williams and George Michael both have such "bonus tracks" (can't remember the names of the albums, though, Robbie's is his album of jazz standards, George's is his previous one with the red and black cover).

Tony-B · 05-11-2004, 10:00 PM

Yee, the name of that Robbie Williams album you are thinking of is Swing When You're Winning.