Did Blue Note drop the ball with the *Blue Train* SACD?

KeithH · 07-02-2003, 07:26 AM

I started a thread on Steve Hoffman's forum last night about comparing the John Coltrane Blue Train SACD to the DAD (I haven't done the comparison myself yet). Much to my surprise, I read a fair amount of criticism of the SACD there. There were comments of compression, boosting, etc. The SACD was mastered by Rudy Van Gelder, and his efforts have received a fair bit of criticism on Steve Hoffman's board.

The general consensus on Hoffman's board was that the DAD is much better than the SACD. Now, I haven't listened to the DAD in awhile, but the SACD sounds good to my ears. The cymbals sound a bit tinny in spots, and the horns also sound stuffy here and there, but I realize this is an older recording. Overall, I am pleased with the SACD. Nevertheless, did Blue Note blow it with this release? What is your opinion of the SACD? Thanks in advance.

P.S. I plan on comparing the SACD and DAD tonight and will post some comments.

Philip Hamm · 07-02-2003, 08:34 AM

I don't know (or care - I have the vinyl) which sounds better but I'll bet the SACD outsells the DAD by a vast margin despite it being notably inferior (based on everything I've read on the internet about this release).

Lee Scoggins · 07-02-2003, 10:45 AM

Keith,

There are too many variables with these recordings to judge definitively either way IMHO. I have the DAD but not the SACD yet, but I suspect that some aspects of the SACD like soundstaging and midrange liquidity will be very good if they did it right.

Here are some reasons why things might be different:

1. Classic Records is ultra fussy about getting the original tapes, perhaps Blue Note used other than original tapes.

2. Mike Hobson at Classic is probably doing a better job of mastering the tapes.

3. Blue Note, being new to Super Audio, may still be learning what to do and how to do it.

4. People posting may have better or worse playback devices for 24/96 DAD versus DSD. Even universal players like the Pioneers do not have the best SACD implementation.

5. There could be some listening bias if people have listened for several years to the DAD only. They like a more relaxed (or detailed) presentation like Classic is famous for, while the SACD may be more detailed (or relaxed) to one's ears.

So I guess I would caution people to get both recordings and decide for themselves based on what their listening tastes are.

If I can find the recording locally, I will try to post a review versus the DAD.

Michael_T · 07-02-2003, 02:09 PM

Another factor to consider, although it doesn't really speak to sound quality, is that the hybrid SACD can be purchased for $14.99 (and sounds OK), where the DAD will set you back $25.00.

Is the DAD worth that much more than the SACD? Possibly. I haven't purchased the DAD (although I did borrow it from a friend about a year ago), and I remember it sounded very, very good. Maybe I should just break down and get the DAD also.

Mike Broadman · 07-02-2003, 04:29 PM

The biggest problem with Blue Train is that they chose an album that already had an excellent resolution version of it out there which doesn't even need a special player. They just set themselves up for comparison.

Of course, Blue Train is the only Coltrane title on Blue Note. I guess they felt that they really needed a heavyweight like 'Trane to get that kind of notice. It's sad that they couldn't count on their many other great legacy artists.

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LarryDavenport · 07-02-2003, 04:50 PM

I read a review at Audiophile Audition that said the SACD was superior to the DAD so, as usual, it's just someone's opinion.

KeithH · 07-02-2003, 11:34 PM

Lee,

You make some valid points. In my thread on Hoffman's board, I was looking for opinions from people who had compared the DAD and SACD on one player. No one who replied had done that, and I won't be able to do it either. (I didn't get a chance to compare the DAD and SACD tonight.)

You said:

Quote:

If I can find the recording locally, I will try to post a review versus the DAD.

I got my copy at Best Buy. Check it out!

Michael_T said:

Quote:

the hybrid SACD can be purchased for $14.99 (and sounds OK), where the DAD will set you back $25.00.

I got my DAD sealed on eBay for $11!

Larry,

I'll have to check out that online review. Thanks.

Ken Stuart · 07-03-2003, 04:53 PM

Quote:

1. Classic Records is ultra fussy about getting the original tapes, perhaps Blue Note used other than original tapes.

I do not know the specific details, but the same person, Rudy Van Gelder, did an excellent SACD of A Love Supreme for which he was the original engineer, and for which he searched the world for the best available master tape.

So, if the Blue Train SACD is worse than the DAD, it is not due to master tapes or engineering, unless there is so problem in terms of legal access to master tapes.

Mike Broadman · 07-03-2003, 05:13 PM

I'd have to have a lot of "proof" to determine RVG screwed up. Everything I've heard of his work (which is mostly the Blue Note remasters) is sonic gold.

Ron Reda · 02-25-2004, 11:17 AM

Diggin' one up from the archives...

Quote:

Another factor to consider, although it doesn't really speak to sound quality, is that the hybrid SACD can be purchased for $14.99 (and sounds OK), where the DAD will set you back $25.00.

Elusive Disc now has all DADs available for $14.99 (see link below) including (yep, you guess it) Coltrane's "Blue Train". I already have the MoFi version, but am looking to get this title in high-res. So, with the SACD and DAD priced exactly the same, which to go with?

http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo....tem=6&mitem=42

I'm also thinking about "Something Else" from Cannonball Adderley to replace my MoFi version.

Philip Hamm · 02-25-2004, 12:11 PM

Quote:

I'm also thinking about "Something Else" from Cannonball Adderley to replace my MoFi version.

The "Somethin' Else" DAD is stunning.