Juan L

Howard Shore versus John Williams

O.K., I forgot what thread I read it in, but somebody had mentioned that ITO, Howard Shore was the new king of "modern" movie soundtracks. I myself am really big on John Williams and that comment caused me to go back and listen to some of his older stuff, namely "Star Wars", and discovered that it was even better than I remembered! While I do recognize Shore's recent achievement (the LOTR trilogy), let's not forget that Williams has done some really incredible work on that "other" trilogy. One of the main reasons for my love of John Willams is his longevity. IMHO, he is the equivalent of the Beatles! I'm curious to read what others may think. Maybe I'm the one that's gone over the edge!:b

Thanks in advance,

Juan

\"Obi Wan never told you what happened to your father.\"-Vader
\"He told me enough, he told me you killed him.\"-Luke
\"No, I am your father!\"-Vader

ThomasC

He very well may be the next big thing, but the LOTR trilogy music is the only really notable music that he has written, AFAIK. Shore and Williams do have something in common; they didn't really hit it big until they were about twenty years into their profession. According to IMDB, Shore has been composed music for films since 1978, and Williams started scoring films in 1959, but didn't hit it big until Jaws in 1975 and Star Wars in 1977. So for now, Williams is definitely better than Shore.

The man I loved - the man who vanished - he never came back at all. But maybe he's still out there, somewhere. Maybe some day, when Gotham no longer needs Batman, I'll see him again.

rinaldo

The fact,that Williams has composed music for movies for a longer time doesn´t make him better in the first place.I really admire both ,but I have to say, that Williams music is placed more into the foreground than Shores music usually is.Shore has composed brilliant music for "Silence of the Lambs", "The Game" or "Philadelphia",he has worked with brilliant directors like Fincher or Cronenberg as much as Williams did with Spielberg.The fact ,that You don´t think of Shores music in the first place after leaving the cinema is the special gift of a film composer, giving the movie a specific atmosphere and a musical structure ,You´ll remember less easily than other music maybe .But it´s not less brilliant therefore .Think back to the opening scene of "Silence of the Lambs" .Do You just see something or do You hear the music,too?? Well,I do.

Juan L

It's not just the quantity, but the quality as well. What really blows me away about Williams is his list of really good movie soundtracks:
Jaws
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Superman
Star Wars
Empire Strikes Back (my personal fav)
Raiders of the Lost Ark
E.T. (his last truly geat score IMO)
Return of the Jedi (the beginning of the end)
Shindler's List
Jurasic Park
Saving Private Ryan
Catch Me if You Can (terribly underrated)
Now don't get me wrong, the guy does have some snoozers (Patriot anyone?), but who doesn't know the themes to many of the above mentioned titles. That, IMO is the mark of true geatness, when you not only have the adoration of the hard core movie nut, but the critics and the general public as well.

Juan

\"Obi Wan never told you what happened to your father.\"-Vader
\"He told me enough, he told me you killed him.\"-Luke
\"No, I am your father!\"-Vader

ThomasC

Juan, have you heard Williams's score to Hook? Some regard it as his best ever work, because it really displays his range.

The man I loved - the man who vanished - he never came back at all. But maybe he's still out there, somewhere. Maybe some day, when Gotham no longer needs Batman, I'll see him again.

Marty M

Lawn Ranger Motto: You're only young once, but you can be always be immature.

Juan L

Thomas,

You know it's funny that you mention Hook, because I was watching that particular movie the other day and the first thing that jumped out at me was the score (go figure). I guess that I have developed a personal bias toward Hook, as I've read that Episode II has what is in effect the same soundtrack. But it appears that a full, personal investigation is in order.

Marty,

I can't believe I forgot to mention Born On The Fourth Of July! I saw that movie in a double feature with that Chuck Norris classic "Hero and the Terror". You're right, this soundtrack is soo haunting (in a good way).

Juan

\"Obi Wan never told you what happened to your father.\"-Vader
\"He told me enough, he told me you killed him.\"-Luke
\"No, I am your father!\"-Vader

ThomasC

Yes, there is a bit of the love theme in Hook, but just a bit. I don't see that many parallels between the scores for Hook and AOTC.

The man I loved - the man who vanished - he never came back at all. But maybe he's still out there, somewhere. Maybe some day, when Gotham no longer needs Batman, I'll see him again.

Nathan Eddy

Shore, like Williams, has also borrowed off his past work. Listen to the music at the end of Dogma. I believe it is when "God" (aka Alanis Morrisette) appears. This music is the same exact theme underlying the Rivendell theme in FOTR right after Frodo awakens and goes exploring the 'dell.

But I don't mind too much, it's a beautiful bit of music. In addition, Shore added some nice vocal arrangements over top of his borrowed music (played on strings) that made it much more layered and complex.

Though Williams' work is more comprehensive and consistent, Shore's work on LOTR deserves a lot of credit. He performed a difficult task of creating music that simultaneously achieve two goals: 1) expressing the emotional spectrum of the narrative and 2)evoking cultural and historical perspectives of Middle Earth. He used different musical approaches (scale structures, chord progressions, time signatures, etc.) for each specific culture, as well as employing instruments characterist to each race. He developed numerous musical themes that interrelated as the story and characters interrelated. And he did all this while performing the main duty of a movie soundtrack: conveying the emotional drama of the story.

Did anyone else notice how the Gondor theme in ROTK was first forshadowed two years earlier when Boromir made his speech at the Council of Elrond? That's planning ahead! Shore played around with his themes quite a bit, orchestrating them with different instruments and different arrangements depending on the cinematic context. And the fact that he composed, orchestrated, conducted, and recorded over 10 hours of extremely complex music in three consequtive years of work on LOTR is a monumental achievement.

But Williams' themes are more fun to hum, I'll give him that.

TheLongshot

Kinda hard to compare a guy who was been writing iconic scores for 3 decades to a guy who only just got well known in the past few years. Course, sometimes it is breaks like this that make you well known and help you have a chance to be iconic.

I do have to say that Shore did an amazing job. I'm not sure Williams would have done as well, considering how uneven he's been lately. (I thought his Harry Potter score was pretty mundane...)

Jason

My DVD Collection

Jan H

Agreed. Shore's achievement with the LOTR rivals Williams' work in the original trilogy, or pretty much any other 3 movies Williams has scored. But JW has an near-incomparable body of work in film music, rivaled only by Korngold, IMO. Shore is going to have to consistently deliver high-quality music for an extended period to be mentioned with the likes of JW, Korngold, Hermann, Rosza, etc. But, damn, the LOTR music is the best score in decades!