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11-20-2003, 09:49 PM
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#1 of 11 
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Beethoven's works bicentenial - good timeline?
Well lovely lovely Ludwig Van wrote many masterpieces starting in the early 1800s, so the bicentenial of many of these works is fast approaching.
The problem is: what should we use for a date? Timelines such as www.raptusassociation.org/beets_works.htm list rough date of composition, followed by date of first performance plus date of formal publication.
What do you guys think we should use as a bicentenial date for these works? I for one would like to throw a party for each of the major works. It doesn't get any better than this. 
Feline videophiles Susie and Dukie.
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11-20-2003, 11:22 PM
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#2 of 11
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Though publication date is chronologically off in a few places, publication symbolizes when a work truly is finished.
Quote:
| It doesn't get any better than this. |
Yeah, it does. Their names are Bach, Mozart and Mahler.
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11-25-2003, 02:20 PM
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#3 of 11
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I'll just disregard Seth's comments 
Picking a date is very tough for Beethoven on many works, especially since he had a penchant for finishing a work, having it performed, and then tinkering with it some more. Case in point: the famous Fuer Elise, WoO 59, written about 1810 or so. This is the version that's familiar and played by piano students everywhere. But he also took it up again and revised it substantially in 1822, apparently with an eye to publication. See:
http://www.unheardbeethoven.org/sear...e=frel1822.mid
In other cases, he composed things in his early years while still back in Bonn, but they were offered to publishers years later by his brothers--sometimes with Ludwig's approval, and sometimes not. As much as 20 years could separate composition and publication, such as with op. 87, the trio for oboes and English horn.
Other things can be exactly pinpointed, such as the Choral Fantasy op. 80, which was still being composed on the morning of the first performance! If you're interested, email me and I'll forward my detailed chronological listing with the best information I've been able to derive regarding dating based on completion of works. It's lengthy, but substantially complete.
Important works coming up for their bicentennials in 1804 include:
Sonata op. 53 (Waldstein)
Sonata op. 54
Symphony nr. 3 op. 55 (Eroica)
Triple Concerto op. 56
Sonata op. 57 (Appassionata)
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11-25-2003, 02:58 PM
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#4 of 11
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Mark: you misspelled "erotica"....
Bach was a great composer. Mahler was a near-great composer. But dunkel ist das Leben, ist der Tod : Mozart was some kid who wrote tinkley music that somehow became popular. Sort of a later version of Telemann....
I cannot see anyone ever writing a book called "Mozart's Spiritual Development".
When Mozart was my age, he was already dead 15 years. :b
Feline videophiles Susie and Dukie.
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11-25-2003, 04:06 PM
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#5 of 11
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dare I say it?...
oh, what the heck!
CLASSICAL THREAD PHARTS  |
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11-25-2003, 04:44 PM
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#6 of 11
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Mark,
Most of his works were published within a few years of their premier and like I said, only in a few places does going by the opus number put works out of chronological order. You're looking at extreme cases.
Quote:
| Mozart was some kid who wrote tinkley music that somehow became popular. Sort of a later version of Telemann.... |
To quote Schnabel: "Mozart, too easy for beginners, too difficult for masters."
I would hardly call Le nozze di Figaro, Don Giovanni, Così fan tutte, Die Zauberflöte, the C minor mass, the Requiem, the late piano concertos, the late symphonies, the clarinet concerto, the Haydn string quartets, and the Gran Partita "tinkley" [sic] music.
If you want to talk about spirituality, Mahler has everyone beat.
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11-25-2003, 04:58 PM
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#7 of 11
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Beethoven compositions significantly out of chronological order (i.e., more than a couple years) going by opus nos:
19
39
44
46
49
50
51
52
64
65
66
71
81b
85
87
88
103
112
113
115
116
117
118
121a
128
129
136
137
138
By my count, that's over 20% of the opus-numbered works, which I'd consider a significant proportion. Then you have 200+ works listed in Kinsky-Halm that aren't chronologically catalogued at all and 335 in the Hess catalog, same thing (though there's some overlap there). So it depends what you're counting as 'works.' Only about a third of Beethoven's completed compositions bear opus numbers at all, so if you limit yourself to that measure you're missing out on a lot of great material.
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11-25-2003, 05:17 PM
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#8 of 11
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Mark,
Not having an "opus" number isn't something to get "worked" up about....
At least we have the Waldstein, Appassionata, and Eroica coming up next year. I have a favorite Waldstein (the Vox recording of Alfred Brendel) and a favorite Appassionata (the old Victrola disk of Sviatislav Richter) but don't have a current favorite of the Eroica. I wonder what's coming up soon on SACD? The Von Karajan 1963 set? Perhaps the George Szell current release?
Feline videophiles Susie and Dukie.
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11-25-2003, 06:24 PM
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#9 of 11
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Mark,
Most of the pieces on that list (and the WoO) are minor works ranging from incidental keyboard works, songs, little known choral and chamber works and arrangements. Pretty much all of his major works (piano, concerto, chamber, symphony and string quartet) were published shortly after their premiers and given opus numbers.
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