Frank_S

A decent tube phono stage will take care of that.

KeithH

Raul said about newsgroups:



Also a great place to witness people say anything and everything because there is absolutely no accountability.

My:
Main Stereo and HT Systems ;
Second Stereo System ;
Equipment List ; DVDs, SACDs, and more ;
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\"You know, the tomato never took off as a handfruit.\"

- George Costanza

gregD

"If you shove it down their throats, they will swallow."

That is from Field of Dreams, isn't it?... maybe not.

I've posted this opinion before, but... we need everybody's participation, especially the mass consumers (MC), to make hi-rez become a viable -- and affordable -- part of our home entertainment... and the MCs need incentives to buy into this.

I agree with posters who claim that the MCs are unaware of and/or disinterested in hi-rez... I've specified and installed a few HT systems for friends -- just for fun, I love the hobby... my friends come from various walks of life, and are educated and accomplished... and not a one of 'em could care less about sound quality... they just want sound to whiz around the room, hide the speakers best I can, and to keep the expenditure as minimal as possible... period... any mention of SACD or DVDA draws the blankest of stares.

The incentives needed to sell hi-rez are the same ones that made DVD such a no-brainer runaway success:

Inexpensive universal players with simple digital connections (yes, that means new pre's or receivers, but there could be optional adapters for those who cannot replace older receivers)... even I grow weary of the rat's nest of analog cables on my rig.

Tons of titles... discs with multiple layers; why issue discs that only a few can play?... and market the hell out of em with simple labeling: "5.1 Surround Sound", "Compatible on All DVD Players" (or "CD Player" as warranted)... and price them like CDs... give the MC every reason to pick up a hi-rez disc... they can be guided into equipment later when it's apparent the hi-rez disc sounds better on their existing gear.

As it stands, hi-rez has none of these incentives... save for the one nobody cares about: sound quality.

In short, you gotta serve it up on a platter, stick it in their face, and tell em it's great... easy, plentiful, cheap... otherwise there is no reason for them to care... once it's in the house -- at whatever level -- the benefits will become apparent, the expenditure on gear will commence, revenue will flow, and newer and better and less costly gear will follow -- just like it did with DVD... and all six dozen of us here at HTF will be in a much-improved position to pursue upscale gear and software as needed... we're all in this together.

Everything is so simple in my world...

Seth--L

Exactly. I think that some posters underestimate the number of people whose primary audio system is a $50 boom-box or their computer speakers (and own large screen TVs to watch DVDs, but use nothing more than the TV speakers).

Well - There it is.
My Music Collection

RaulR

Sure, but it doesn't matter how much we look down on Usenet or AOL or WebTV or whathaveyou. If SACD or DVD-A doesn't sell to "average" people because they just don't get it, nothing we say or think about these technologies will make much difference in the end.

Besides, I don't see too many people pulling their punches on better forums like HTF because of "accountability".

http://raulregalado.com

Rachael B

SACD players are much to hard to buy in the first place. I was at Circuit City 2-day and their kiosk has this little, patheic looking, silver thing. I don't think Busted Buy has any players anymore. Basically, Sony can't be bothered to suppourt their own format. What a novel marketing strategy, eh!

Rachael, the big disc cat! I used to be looking for Hi-Vision Laserdiscs & D-Theater tapes, now I'm looking for HD-DVD's and Blu-rays.

I survived the AFI top 100 Film Challenge! I've seen them all.

favourite saying: hard feelings are for park benches... sit on that!

Greg Johnson

I for one would be quite happy if SACD and DVD Audio remain niche formats for years to come. The second these two formats become mainstream you can kiss quality goodbye. If these formats were to go mainstream there wouldn't be the meticulous engineering effort put into a title to achieve the best sound quality possible from the master.
When I first got into buying SACD and DVD Audio titles multi channel was important to me. Now I could care less about it. I listen to the 2 channel mixes anymore 90% of the time with the exception of DSOTM and sometimes Norah Jones. Multi channel may hook new customers in but it seems like the novelty of it wears off fast. At least it did for me.

Rob M.

Lee--

You often refute posts by other members by saying they are specualtion or assumption.

Well, aren't you making a big assumption that artists have "signed on" to SACD? Rush is on a completely different record label now--if they want to "sign on" to a high-res format, it ain't gonna be SACD for the forseeable future. I believe the same may be true of Elton John.

Sting on the other hand, may be a proponant, but as you often state, we have know way of knowing, unless and until he actually speaks out about it like Peter Gabriel or James Guthrie.



Because if that market research you don't want to believe (if it exists) may show them that the discs are going to sell whether they go to the added expense of an SACD layer.





You mean like they do with vinyl?

Look, I know you work in the business and all, and I truly respect your opinions and insight when it comes to sound quality. In fact, reading some of the info you've posted here (along with several other members) convinced me to get into SACD. And I love it. What I don't understand is why you react as if someone has attacked your family when they say something negative about SACD. As I've said before, I only need some common freakin' sense to know that consumer awareness of SACD is really low.

As much as I love the sounds I hear coming off the discs, Sony is pissing away the opportunity. Don't think so? When is the last time Sony released a new SACD player? If they want it to succeed, why don't they include SACD playback on every new home DVD player and CD player? Why doesn't the Playstation 2 play SACDs? Right now, we are relying on other companies to produce new hardware--but good luck actually finding one of these players in a store. I swear, I think Sony supported MiniDisc mre than this.

"So if you want my address it's number one at the end of the bar
Where I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars."

Michael St. Clair

Are you kidding me?

How many bought for the hirez layer is totally relevent, because if it is a miniscule number, the labels could make even more money on the same releases by avoiding SACD production costs, SACD manufacturing costs, and SACD licensing costs.

Sony themselves may not care as much because they make money on hardware and licensing, plus sales of DSD studio equipment and so on. But this data is totally relevant to other studios and to the long-term success of the format.

If a disc like 'Dark Side of the Moon' would have sold as the same as a CD-only remaster/reissue, EMI would be better off not messing with SACD layers at all!

If I were a record label exec or bean counter, I would demand that Sony demonstrate just how many copies are really being sold because of the SACD layer. Yet many SACD advocates attribute the high sales of these discs due to the SACD layer, and then advocate that the labels should acknowledge this and put everything from The Beatles to Coldplay on SACD. That is a voodoo argument...where are the facts?

And, really, when a format is really taking off (witness anything from CD to VHS to Playstation), those who hold the licenses brag to no end about the number of units they are moving. Where are the non-hybrid sales numbers? That is the most meaningful indicator as to the demand for the SACD format.

KeithH

Raul said:


I absolutely agree that the backers of SACD and DVD-Audio need to do a lot more to attract the interest of the "masses". However, one cannot say that anonymous newsgroups represent the viewpoint of the masses. There is a lot of trolling on those sites. I am not saying that sites such a HTF give a representative viewpoint of consumers either, but we don't have the trolling here.

Regarding "pulling punches", you don't seem to always do it either. Recall your "cocoon" comment. Besides, accountability should not be equated with pulling punches. One can express and honest opinion in a respectful manner. However, when there is no accountability or reprecussions, then trolling and flaming are the result. This is why I refuse to waste time on newsgroups.

My:
Main Stereo and HT Systems ;
Second Stereo System ;
Equipment List ; DVDs, SACDs, and more ;
Planned Upgrades and Additions


\"You know, the tomato never took off as a handfruit.\"

- George Costanza

Lee Scoggins