Beach Boys: Pet Sounds....my new favorite DVD-A - Page 2

Dan B · 07-28-2003, 11:25 PM

Nope, my Sony SACD player (which doesn't have any video output) is very easy to switch between 2 channel & multi-channel just by hitting a button on the remote.

I'm still trying to figure out the Denon DVD-Audio. It seems that I need to switch DVD-Video Mode off & on to access certain features on DVD-Audio discs...and I don't ever know what features it turns on & off. (not to mention they should have called it DVD-Audio Mode instead of DVD-Video Mode IMO) When using the group button to toggle between the audio tracks, it doesn't always give a good indication of what audio format is playing...either on the Denon display or the TV display.

Rich Malloy · 07-29-2003, 11:16 AM

You definitely don't need a monitor for SACD... and unless you've got a combo DVD/SACD player, you can't even hook a monitor to it.

To change between SACD/CD layers requires the push of one button on my remote or my player. To change between stereo and multichannel likewise requires the push of one button.

But this is something that the DVD-A format is addressing, and I'm glad to hear it's all but entirely fixed at least for DVD-A tracks with the "group" button (or whatever). It seems like an easy fix for Dolby Digital, DTS and LPCM tracks too... why not just let me toggle between them using my audio button, just as I do for (most) DVD-Video discs?

Justin Lane · 07-29-2003, 11:26 AM

Quote:

You definitely don't need a monitor for SACD... and unless you've got a combo DVD/SACD player, you can't even hook a monitor to it.

Rich,

This is only true if you own an SACD only player. Some of the newer universals require you to go into the players set up menu to change between stereo and multichannel tracks. As the SACD format progresses, it is becoming more and more like DVD-A, including reliability on a monitor in the new universals and the possible release of SACD II, which mirrors the functionality of a DVD-A.

Us owners of early audio only SACD players dont need to go into a menu to switch between tracks, but we do have to stop the music and then press a button to do so. With most DVD-A, a switch between tracks requires no stopping of the music, and just a simple push of the group or audio button without use of a monitor to switch between tracks.

With the apparent death of audio only players, the improved DVD-A authoring, and the probable proliferation of universals, any user friendly advantage SACD may have, seems to be going out the window.

J

John Kotches · 07-29-2003, 12:10 PM

I have a Philips SACD1000, which is a DVD/SACD player and can toggle between MC and Stereo with the "Sound Mode" button.

I don't even have the composite output hooked up for the time being.

Regards,

Larry Geller · 07-29-2003, 12:54 PM

I think I've solved the mono problem
After seeing so many different reactions (mostly negative) about the mono mix on the DVD-A, I was really eager to see for myself when I got the disc on Friday. After listening to it, I think that I have figured out what is wrong. This all applies to the DVD-A side & the DVD-V side. First of all, many people couldn't get their decoders to decode the mono mix, but were able to decode the stereo mix. I am one of them. Secondly, some people seem to think it's a 2.0 mono track, while other refer to a 1.0 center-channel-only mix. The problem is EVERYBODY IS RIGHT! The problem is due to an authoring mistake, but there is also a SECOND authoring problem, that causes my DVD-A player (Toshiba 5700) to DECODE THE DISC INTO DOLBY PRO LOGIC when you listen to the mono track with the player set to 6-channel analog and use the receiver's (Yamaha DSP A-1) 6-channel input to listen. THIS IS WHY IT CAME OUT OF THE CENTER CHANNEL ONLY, LACKED BASS & GENERALLY SOUNDED CRAPPY! In order to get it to play properly in 2.0, I had to set the DVD-A player to bitstream & listen to the receiver thru the regular DVD input set to analog. Once you do this all the bass comes back (on Let's Go Away For Awhile it's MASSIVE--if you have a lack of bass at the beginning of the track then you probably have the above problem) and the sound becomes very acceptable. Now, I haven't compared it with Steve's yet, but what I hear now is far from "unlistenable"!
Your player-amp combo may handle this issue differently than my setup, but I think that this is the crux of the problem.

Now, on to my thoughts on the disc. This disc is how the Beatles should be done & has convinced me as to DVD-A over SACD. There is no way SACD could handle the kind of perfect package we have here--THREE mixes, FOUR videos, lyrics on screen as the disc plays, FORTY-FIVE minutes of musical Discography highlights, tons of photos, liner notes and credits. THIS is value for your money (even at EMI's ridiculously high price).

This is the BEST PIECE OF SOFTWARE EVER RELEASED IN THE HISTORY OF MUSIC!!!

BTW, I like it.

also---Normally, I listen to all hi-rez tracks with the DVD-A player set to 6-ch analog thru my receiver's 6-ch input. However, when I do this with Pet Sounds, the DVD-A player automatically engages Dolby Pro-Logic & routes it to the center channel ONLY. I can tell this because when I go into the DVD player's display it says "Dolby Pro-Logic". Another weird thing I didn't mention in the last post is that if the player is set to 6-CH, but I listen to my regular DVD input set to digital, THEN I can decode the digital 2-CH mono signal, something that also shouldn't happen!

Ken_McAlinden · 07-29-2003, 01:49 PM

Quote:

It seems like an easy fix for Dolby Digital, DTS and LPCM tracks too... why not just let me toggle between them using my audio button

Rich,
Quite frequently, different mixes (mono, 2 channel, multi-channel) will have slight variations in running time due to fades, slight variations in tape machine speeds, and other such stuff. As such, while I think it makes a lot of sense to be able to switch on the fly between different codecs of the same mix (e.g. DD 5.1 & DTS), it would be impractical to do it for different mixes in many cases.

Regards,

Rich Malloy · 07-29-2003, 02:41 PM

I should have been more clear, Ken...

While it'd be great to toggle between tracks "on-the-fly", I'd simply like to be able to toggle between them before hitting "PLAY" (or, likewise, "STOP", "toggle", "PLAY"). I outlined the steps required to switch between tracks on this disc in an earlier post, and of those steps I suggest that there are at least 3-4 extraneous ones. And monitor required.

This is only a minor hassle, however. But it seems the fix should be an easy one.

Steve_AS · 07-30-2003, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Rich,

Yes, via the digital connection I can get mono and stereo without downcoversion.

My amplifier is Yamaha DSP-AZ1 and my player is Pioneer 747 or 47A (in the United States)

Hmm. With 'Linear PCM out' set to Down Sample Off, My
Pioneer DV-45a passes the *mono* via digital at the full 96/24, but according to the audio display the *stereo* 96/24 is downsampled for digital output. When I set it to Down Sample On, I get a downsample message for both mono and stereo. Are you sure yours isn't downsampling the stereo tracks? If so, it's an interesting difference between the 47a and 45a.

Rich Malloy · 07-30-2003, 10:41 AM

Hmmmm... this is sorta interesting. Can anyone confirm beyond the shadow of a doubt that they are sending the 24/96 stereo signal via digital connection? No "internal downsampling", whether selected or automatically triggered?

I am certain that I'm getting the mono signal without downsampling via the digital connection as both my Pioneer 414's "96kH" light is illuminated and my Outlaw 1050 receiver flashes "PCM 96K" when it locks on and plays. However, when I select the stereo track, the "96kH" light on my player illuminates and my receiver flashes "PCM 96K", but doesn't lock on the signal. It will only lock onto the stereo track signal (via digital connection) if a manually reset my Pioneer 414 to "downsample" (is that the correct term?) all 96kH signals to 48kH. The Pioneer 414 still identifies the track playing as "96kH", but my receiver does NOT flash the "PCM 96K" light before locking onto the signal... which it now can lock on and playback.

I guess an interesting followup question would be whether anyone CANNOT playback the mono 24/96 track via the digital connection without "downsampling" to 48kH?

Paul.S · 07-30-2003, 02:52 PM

Larry Geller, you raise some very interesting issues in your post #35.

Rich M.: you mentioned the electronic (the lights on your Pio 414 and Outlaw 1050) confirmation of the mono mix apparently being played back at its native 96/24 resolution but the stereo mix being down-rezed when playing via your digital connection, but not any aural confirmation (how do they sound comparatively speaking?).

I know the mono versus stereo difference will probably make sound quality comparisons more difficult, but I'm curious about how the hopefully 96/24 mono mix your 414 and 1050 are playing back compares to the (allegedly) down-rezed stereo 96/24 track.

The reason I ask/make this point is because--especially given Lerry Geller's post #35--what if the disc is flagged incorrectly, causing some receivers and/or players to incorrectly indicate whether you are hearing 96/24 or not? This would hardly be a first in the DVD world.

As some engineers have told me, 'trust your ears, not the meters.' In addition to hopefully some sound quality comments from you, I look forward to responses from other listeners on this.

Paul

Larry Geller · 07-30-2003, 03:53 PM

BTW, ARE the stereo & mono tracks REALLY 96/24? My player (Toshiba SD 5700) just reads PCM 2CH for both, whereas the 5.1 reads PPCM 96/24. The PCM 2CH read holds true for all my Capitol DVD-As' stereo tracks (AL Green & Music From Big Pink are the others). I assumed that they were all just regular 48K DVD PCM tracks, not PPCM 48/24 like The Nightfly (done so they can also play on regular DVD players instead of just DVD-A players), not HI-REZ PPCM DVD-A tracks, and I thought it kind of sucked that they did this. My receiver decodes them at 48K (with downmix turned off), but if I play them thru analog, am I really getting a 96/24 track? Unless it took up too much room, the DVD-A side SHB PPCM 96/24, leaving the regular PCM tracks for the DVD side of the disc. At this point it looks like the only difference between the 2 sides is on the 5.1 tracks.

One other complaint about an otherwise great disc: Why did we get Summer Means New Love (which, after all, is ON Summer Days & Summer Nights), only to lose Trombone Dixie & Hang On To Your Ego (which were REALLY from the Pet Sounds sessions, and now will not be available on DVD-A)? If the stated reason is that it was a B-side to a Pet Sounds 45, then where's You're So Good To Me (the B-side of Sloop John B), or for that matter, Good Vibrations (the A-side of Let's Go Away For Awhile)?