Could video capabilty be added to SACD?

Rachael B · 06-08-2003, 02:30 PM

Is it possible/practical/desirable ? If SACD (So-knee) decided they really wanted to trump DVD-A by adding video could they and keep 100% compatiable with present discs? Could the CD layer be video-ized? I'm not saying I'm partcularly in favour of this but when you look at the mass market...'dem peoples like's d'they big screens.

Good idea? Bad idea? ...practical?

subformat name: Extreame Really Really Super Audio-Video CD's...

Sathyan · 06-08-2003, 09:27 PM

Is there room?

Note: I could be completely wrong about the below. Please correct the errors.

As I understand it, SACD is on DVD-ROM media. 2.8224 MHz time 1 bit divided by 8 bits per byte is .3528 MB/s. One hour would be 1270.08 MB per channel; six channels is 7620.48MB. Another 2540.16MB for two stereo tracks and 600MB for redbook CD. That's a total of 10760.64MB (well, less than that because the subwoofer channel is less than a full channel of bandwidth) I believe DVD is around 9 gigs (unless the 16 gig kind has been implemented). DVD video is around 50MB a minute (compressed from 300MB a minute AVI - there are a bunch of variables here; this is calculated from chapt. 29 of Y Tu Mama Tambien ). Let's say the three minute music videos of an albums three hits are record to DVD. At this rate that's 450MB.

I would like to see music videos distributed (heck, that's the only thing I download off KaZaa) but we must not allow multiple (i.e. reduced) bitrates for SACD audio tracks. Packaging a DVD-V disc with the videos is a preferrable solution.

Sathyan

NP Natalie Merchant Ophelia <---Warner: Please release this one on DVD-A!

charles white · 06-08-2003, 11:02 PM

What about a flip-disc? One side SACD audio and the other video DVD? I have a DVD-Audio that is a close variant of that-one side has high res stereo tracks and the other high res multi channel tracks. It beats navigating through clunky on screen menus to get to the stereo tracks-my main pet peeve with DVD-Audio.

Kevin C Brown · 06-09-2003, 03:19 AM

Why? Lp doesn't have it. CD doesn't have it. And it personally pisses me off when I have to turn on my *TV* to *listen* to a DVD-A disc.

RobBenton · 06-09-2003, 04:28 AM

From an info thing i Read on SACD there is a secion on the outer edge reserved for future use of text graphics and such.. not sure about video though but at least pictures and text.

**HTF Ads**

John Kotches · 06-09-2003, 10:01 AM

Rob,

The region you refer to is (still) undefined 4 years after the formats introduction. It isn't very large, nor would it need to be for a slideshow type presentation.

Hmm... slide show type presentation... that sounds vaguely familiar.

Regards,

John Kotches · 06-09-2003, 10:15 AM

Sathyan,

For some reason, your math doesn't sound quite right.

Quote:

As I understand it, SACD is on DVD-ROM media. 2.8224 MHz time 1 bit divided by 8 bits per byte is .3528 MB/s. One hour would be 1270.08 MB per channel; six channels is 7620.48MB. Another 2540.16MB for two stereo tracks and 600MB for redbook CD. That's a total of 10760.64MB (well, less than that because the subwoofer channel is less than a full channel of bandwidth) I believe DVD is around 9 gigs (unless the 16 gig kind has been implemented). DVD video is around 50MB a minute (compressed from 300MB a minute AVI - there are a bunch of variables here; this is calculated from chapt. 29 of Y Tu Mama Tambien ). Let's say the three minute music videos of an albums three hits are record to DVD. At this rate that's 450MB.

Ahh yes, now I see it.

The Redbook CD (when included) is at the expense of a 2nd layer and cannot be included in the overall storage calculations.

When providing hybrid media, you have available 4.7 billion bytes (4.2GB to differentiate between marketing and binary (2^10) k/m/g).

Additionally, you have overlooked a few details.

1) Multi-channel requires the use of DST compression, since the aggregate bit rate exceeds the DVD-ROM spec of 9.6Mb/sec (substantially). Typical compression is in the vicinity of 2:1. Further, there is no specification barring the application of DST to the stereo track.

2) All channels, regardless of end usage are sampled at the same 2.8224 mHz. There is no changing of sampling rate for .1 channels.

DVD-Audio has the potential to modify sampling rates based on content. In practice DVD-Audio sampling has been uniform across all channels as well.

3) DVD capacities are 4.7 billion (4.2 Giga) bytes for single layer media, which is all that is allowed for with hybrid (SACD+CD).

For SACD only (no CD layer) it's 9 billion (8.2 Giga) bytes for the SACD content.

4) Exceeding the capacity of a DVD-9 (SACD only) is theoretically possible, by going to DVD-18, but I know of no one that is implementing a DVD-18 for delivering SACD content.

Regards,

Lee Scoggins · 06-09-2003, 01:30 PM

Based on my reading of these responses and conversations with engineers, the answer it is possible to have both SACD music and video content. It may depend on the length of the video, of course, but music videos seem very doable.

Also, SACD could easily produce a "flipper" disc with video content on one side. The volume on a Super Audio disc is quite large given the multiple layers.

I hope that answers your question Rachael.

Danny Tse · 06-09-2003, 01:42 PM

On my Hong Kong pop SACDs (no matter what label), Sony included a "leaflet" that does a comparison of the redbook CD and SACD formats. And according to that "leaflet", video content is possible on SACD. No specifics, however.

Justin Lane · 06-09-2003, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Based on my reading of these responses and conversations with engineers, the answer it is possible to have both SACD music and video content. It may depend on the length of the video, of course, but music videos seem very doable.

I wonder if adding video of some sort would cause compatibility problems for those of us with SACD only players. Also adding video may be doable, but will probably also require new firmware and programming causing compatibility problems with all SACD players on the market.

If they want to add video, a DVD-18 would probably be the best bet. Hi-res audio on one side, DVD Video content on the other. Of course this could cause even more confusion with the public in buying a DVD-V/SACD Hybrid.

I think they should leave SACD well enough alone as an audio only format. When a new format is ready (Blu-Ray, HD-DVD), video and bonus features could be easily implemented from the ground up with Hi-res audio.

J

John-Miles · 06-09-2003, 02:44 PM

Lee, how is an SACD flipper easily doable? considering tis dual layer already wouldn't they be running into all the same problems DVD-A flippers are? I knwo I have read many posts from you saying how DVD-A flippers arent easy and not workign yet.

so can you please shed some light on how this flipper woul;d be different?