Bill J

Terrell, just because a Roman epic film hasn't been made for 40 years, that doesn't make Gladiator orignal. There hasn't been too many Roman epic films, but Gladiator combines plot details and themes of three of them. There are many events that took place during the time of the Roman empire that would make great films.



I could go either way on that, but in general most films I think that are good are A LOT more original than Gladiator.

Seth Paxton

Steve I agree 100% on the close-up view, quick cutting to be detractive from expressing the action, rather than enhancing.

However, with regards to FOTR I can think of some moments that counter that mode (though you might find others that fit it in the film as well).

The camera track across the bridge and then turning back to the Balrog. Shows in one continuous shot exactly what the action layout is.

Later the popular wire tracking shot from above starting at the top of the hill and following the Urak-Hai down to Boromir's position.

I hailed those both simply for their sad uniqueness among modern action pieces because they actually show you what is going on, who is where, etc.

Woo has a real problem with this at times, especially the US stuff. His biggest offender is the shoot-out in Face/Off midway through the film when you literally have no idea who is shooting where. I think it hurts the tension of an action scene badly.

Scott did this in Gladiator as well, which makes it's action suffer in comparison to the rich fullness that is shown in Hur or Spartacus. This is why people SWEAR that a stuntman was killed in Ben-Hur but would never think anyone was near danger in Gladiator. The action seems intentionally disguised. It felt out of place for Scott to tell you the truth as I had always found him to be above that sort of style.

I thought the opening sequence was the best at setting the stage though he ended up getting right in everyone's face toward the end of the scene.

Then I see Brotherhood of the Wolf and it feels 100% opposite. Despite having hyper-action and slow-mo pauses, etc. it managed to cut to emphasize just what action was going on rather than try to fake it with clever cuts. It actually pulled back when it needed to to say to the audience "look at what these guys are REALLY doing here". I get more caught up with that style because seeing people really doing things makes the action feel more real.

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Gavin K

A man seeks revenge after his family/wife is murdered. The Outlaw Josey Wales, Out For Justice, Braveheart, etc., etc.

Gladiator has an entirely unoriginal plot filled with two dimensional characters. And it takes FOREVER for the plot to get rolling. It was like, what, an hour, before Richard Harris finally died. After that it became a pointless, albeit bloody fun, revenge flick.

As long as I start with Crowe waking up as a slave, it's a pretty enjoyable flick, but hardly best-picture worthy.

\"Wow, what a dramatic airport!\"

Seth Paxton

And at least Josey Wales has Indian rights issues among other subplots that are being explored. It's not just "I kill everyone who hurt me".

I mean Out for Justice is a great comparison. Story-wise the exact same themes are explored and nothing more. Nobody was hoisting Justice up for best script.

And Terrell, last year we already went through the very similar plot lines to Ben-Hur. Add to that the Fall of the Roman Empire script basis and the rebellious slave Spartacus plot line/character types and it hurts the originality of the film.

It's not wise to step in someone else's shoes and then fall short of pursuing the story as deeply.

But then I agree and said so in my earlier post which you responded to. Gladiator is a popcorn film based on the standard crowd-pleaser formula of revenge flick. I KNOW IT TRIED TO BE THIS. Heck, who's arguing that. That's the whole point. It didn't try to be more, and a formula revenge flick with a 2 dimensional cartoonish antagonist is not "Oscar calliber" work usually.

Fun, yes. Dramatically compelling showcase for intelligent scripting and acting, no.

Terrell

Many have said the same thing about numerous Oscar films. I guess that'll be your opinion. It's not mine. I consider it excellent in all respects, except for one cgi shot. Certainly oscar worthy, if there is such a thing.

John Spencer

Never heard of this. I'm a honky.

Brian Lawrence

Are you confusing me with someone who liked 'Fellowship of the Ring' ?? Because I have not even seen the film and thus have no opinion on it.

Terrell

Nope, just making a little joke, hence the big smiley face. Although it was in reply to your statement, it was meant as a joke because that's the criticisms I had of FOTR, the same as the statement you made about Gladiator. But it wasn't directed specifically to you. Although I do disagree with that statement.

Mitty

That immediately reminded me of Ebert's review of the film, where he summarizes,

"Gladiator" is being hailed by those with short memories as the equal of "Spartacus" and "Ben-Hur." This is more like "Spartacus Lite."

Terrell

I like Ebert okay, but I thought his review of this film was one of his weakest ever. He didn't bother to critique the story, said very little about the acting, made no mention that I remember of the screenplay or the cinematography. His main criticisms were the color palette used, and the overcast days. Well, the color palette used was perfect. What did he expect, an explosion of bright color? This is Rome and gladiators. The color palette fit perfectly. And he said the film had no joy. Hello, a lot of great films have no joy.

I just felt his review of this film was weak. I've seen him give far better reviews than his review of this film. Then he turns around and gives Tomb Raider a good review.

Jonathan Foreman of The New York Post, Richard Corliss of Time, and James Berardinelli sum up my feelings about this film.

Steve Enemark

Seth- I agree with you about the great shots from FOTR you mentioned. However, the fight with the cave troll and the fight between Strider and the Ring Wraiths at Weathertop both suffered from the quick-cut, up-close style.

I was disappointed that the sword fights in FOTR were shot this way, I was looking forward to some great sword work, which is all too rare in genre films these days. Thank you George Lucas and Ang Lee, for keeping the hope alive!

\"The feel of the experience is the important thing, not the ability to verbalize it.\" -Stanley Kubrick