Chuck Mayer

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

No, I never said merch was THE reason, Pete. You keep interpreting that from what I wrote. In one post (since I edited the other two). It's very frustrating.

I was pointing out that the merch, combined with the sequels, KEPT the film in the public consciousness FAR BEYOND what JUST the movie would do. Out of sight, out of mind. Being a 6 year phenomenon has a much greater impact than being a 10 month phenom. ET and Titanic had NO outlet after the film was done. Star Wars created that, and that in turn fed back into the pop culture aspect of the film. The Star Wars phenom NOW is a confluence of EVERYTHING Star Wars.

And you bring up the impact on future generations. That's very telling, as I'd agree with you on ET and Titanic. But as I pointed out...Star Wars peaked in 1977. Do teenagers today care about SW any more than they do Pirates? I'd argue they care even less. Now OUR generation cares very deeply about Star Wars. But will the current teenagers? I know fans are quick to point out the kids and their interest in SW They'll see Clone Wars. Will it be any more than a blip from this summer to them? We saw SW as the premiere genre whatever for us. Teenagers probably relate more to HP than they EVER will SW. Younger kids than that are even more spoilt

I take my son to daycare. I see more Spider-Man there than I do everything else combined. I think kids today have so many choices, nothing will stick for them.

EDIT: Chris, I don't think SW, the story, is ingrained with the masses now. I think it is a touchstone for people ages 30-45, primarily males. None of my wive's friends care at all. Most of the young folks at my work think it's a joke. My son likes the cartoons a lot, but SW is nothing special to him. That is my point. The point about Titanic is that it burned absolutely as brightly in it's theatrical release as ET did. Which is the same as Jaws did. Which is the same as SW did. What made SW transcend the temporal limitations? The general "heroes journey tale" that was unique in his presentation? The timing of the release? The merchandising that, for the first time, allowed the fans to take that feeling home and expand on it?

That's my saw with regards to Titanic. I'm tired of e-discussion trying to pretend it's success isn't as potent as Star Wars because there isn't a line of toys 10 years later, or because it isn't endlessly quoted in Kevin Smith movies, or because there isn't a band called Caledon Hockley's Gun. I recognize Star Wars has a much bigger pop culture imprint.

I'll push against that diminishment of Titanic's success as often as I hear it.

Pete-D

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

Actually I'd argue Star Wars probably peaked right before 1999 prior to the controversial prequels dampening some of that enthusiasm.

Because it had a lot of new fans coming on board in the 90s that weren't even born in the 1970s and I think it pretty much retained most if not all of its fanbase from '77 on top of that.

It is like I said part of our modern mythology. University professors will use Star Wars analogies to get their students to understand certain things for instance ... that type of thing transcends any other film or film franchise I can think of.

That's why I rank Star Wars on a different level.

Chuck Mayer

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

Then why did it make so much less than Titanic? It should have grossed what the 1977 film did, at least. Assuming as many new fans as dead fans. It ran a long time. The VHS release didn't pop out until over ten months later.

How old are you, Pete? I don't think professors use Star Wars any more than they do Buffy or Harry Potter now. As we discussed...teenagers/college kids now don't care about Star Wars. For our generation, absolutely. But now? See how many courses there are on SW vs. HP, and I think your eyes might be opened.

As for our mythology, even now, I think we should wait a bit. I don't think it's crossed generations like Wizard of Oz has or the LOTR books. That goes back to when it peaked. Is it steady now? Declining? Increasing? Do people quote the PT?

Like I said, people get nostalgic for their childhood in their late 20's and 30's. Let's wait 15 years and see how big Harry Potter kicks that into gear for current teens who grew up with the books.

Chuck Mayer

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

Back to the point of the thread after my excursion (apologies to Terry).

Whatever Pineapples Express made, add 10 million for the weekend and 3-5 million for Wednesday/Thursday. It's going to be pretty big. It's definitely going to beat TDK this weekend, and probably the weekend after. Audiences are going to eat it up (if they can stand the gore).

Pete-D

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

Ep.1 grossed less because it was (cover your ears if you don't want to hear SW negativity) a turd of a movie which cut the legs off its repeat business for a lot of people.

We already went through this, you even admitted if the film was even RotS quality if would've come very close to matching Titanic's gross. The fact that it made $425 million or whatever and was such a bizarre, alienating film is nothing short of a miracle.

I'm 28. I actually wasn't even born when the first Star Wars came out. I do somewhat remember Return of the Jedi, but very vaguely.

When I was really young I actually really didn't understand Star Wars, I was more into Transformers and He-Man. I mean I knew who R2 and 3PO and Vader and all that were but the stories seemed too complicated for me.

Titanic is actually probably more of my generation. I graduated high school the year it came out, my girlfriend was crazy about it.

The movie for me that really set me and my friends off into a frenzy was actually probably Jurassic Park in my teen years. That was a big deal.

And yes, my college prof of a couple of years ago used Star Wars examples.

TerryRL

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

Today saw TDK pass the $450 million mark after only 27 days in theaters, obliterating the previous record of 81 days set by "Titanic". TDK also marks only the third time in history a film has earned more than $450 mil. TDK also became the most seen Batman flick in theaters as it passed the 62.95 million admissions that 1989's "Batman" sold. By Friday (its 28th day in theaters) TDK will have sold more than 64 million tickets.

I don't know how accurate the early reports are, but there are rumblings that "Tropic Thunder" may have gotten off to a bit of a disappointing start today. I've heard the numbers are nowhere near the Wednesday opening mark of "The Pineapple Express" ($12.1 million). Some are saying an "underwhelming" $6 million, while others are saying a "very solid" $8 million.

It'll be interesting to see how this turns out.

"Quite an experience to live in fear isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave."

Brent M

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

Guarantee it's quoted more than Titanic or E.T.

"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."

TerryRL

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

Obi-Wan: "You were the chosen one! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them. Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness."

Anakin: "I hate you!"

Obi-Wan: "You were my brother Anakin. I loved you."

I don't know how quoted it is, but I always dug this particular exchange in ROTS. In my opinion, both Ewan and Hayden gave solid performances in this moment of the movie.

"Quite an experience to live in fear isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave."

Pete-D

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

The prequels don't have any memorable quotes.

That's the double edged sword to sequels/prequels, they can enhance a previous film, but they can also just as easily tear it down.

Like The Matrix trilogy -- that was at one time championed as the "new Star Wars", now it's ridiculed all over the place. I will still say about the first Matrix, that is the most impressive special effects picture I've seen probably since Jurassic Park. At the time, it really change what I believed was possible in live action filmmaking.

DavidJ

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

I don't know. I often ask "are you ready to go back to Titanic?" in my best Bill Paxton voice. Of course, it is hard to work it in and make it applicable to anything.