Pete-D

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

The Batman films through 1997 were pop-culture films ... the Nolan films are really very different. It's just a different beast.

I think the key to TDK success is really just building upon Batman Begins and keeping that audience happy. If they can do that it will spur strong word of mouth.

Because I don't think the other summer blockbusters are as edgy/dark as TDK, that could work to its favor if the movie is well received by the fans and the critics like the first one was.

Chuck Mayer

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

Bingo. The rest of this argument is nonsense.

1) Indy will gross more. I say this with all love to SW fans on HTF, but the Lucas fans are Pavlovian. They respond to nostalgia, so Indy will be a big hit.

2) Indy IV will be a decent film, I'm sure.

3) I think TDK will be a significantly better film. Nolan is working something unique and passionate. I see Indy coming from a different place (again, nostalgia).

Revenge of the Sith made a lot more than Batman Begins...but I thought Begins was a better movie

$$$ comes down to demographics...not quality.


EDIT: And this all started from Bill (who is a long-standing member of HTF) having an issue with the "Sorry Indy" in the TDK thread. And his response was about box office. Not quality. But the "Sorry Indy" was NOT about box office...it was about general excitement. And no matter what, plenty of us film fans are more excited about TDK than Indy IV. It doesn't mean TDK will gross more...it won't. It just means it's a more exciting prospect for my moviegoing dollar.

TerryRL

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

Well said, I completely agree with you.

"Quite an experience to live in fear isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave."

Malcolm R

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

Does anyone under age 30 even know who Indy is? I was one of the first in line at "Temple of Doom" and "Last Crusade," but even I'm not particularly looking forward to the new film. After nearly 20 years it just seems like a cash-in to prop up what's left of Harrison Ford's career. The trilogy was neatly wrapped up with LC. This film just feels completely unnecessary.

Chuck Mayer

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

I think a lot of kids grew up with Indy. I think it'll have great recognition among the younger fans. It has a pedigree The Mummy and National Treasure don't. And many in my age bracket will be excited for a new trip down memory lane. And it is a fun summer film with a great cast, by the guy who invented the summer blockbuster (Jaws), with a story by the guy that perfected the summer blockbuster (Star Wars).

The 80's are in again, and this is prime Indy territory

And what's more...it'll be a good film.

Bill GrandPre

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

Of course they do. Like I said, the "Indy" series is the kind of series that maintains a constant presence without a current movie.

And 30 certainly wouldn't be the cutoff. I was born in '81 after "Raiders" came out and I was too young to see "Temple" theatrically but I still remember seeing "Crusade" in the summer of '89 so its not as if its a 30 and over thing.

You know, Chuck is right, it really doesn't matter which one grosses more, what really matters is which one you like more, but I've never in my life seen a fanbase online as sensitive about box office performance as I have with "Batman Begins" fans.

Trying to cast doubt on the huge cultural presence of the "Indy" films while simultaneously trying to cover up the less-than-stellar box office performance of "Batman Begins" really cements it.

I think "Batman Begins" righted all the wrongs of the previous films but it has its own flaws as well and the more you watch it the more apparent they become. I don't think its a great film (though I'd say it's a good one) and Nolan isn't exactly doing much to make me think the next one will be different.

That said, a lot of people seem to think it was the greatest thing to ever happen to movies and if that's how you think why does it matter if it didn't make a ton of money? It was successful enough to spawn a sequel that you'll probably like too.

As I've said before, I don't expect the box office performance of "The Dark Knight" to radically deviate from the box office performance of "Batman Begins". It might make a little more and it might make a little less but I really don't think a huge jump (or drop as that Mummy guy suggests) is in the cards.

And before anyone suggests it, I'm not some die-hard "Indy" fan. I've literally watched the DVDs once, on the day they came out. I've been meaning to watch them again but my point is that its not as if I'm some nerd that watches an Indy movie every day.

I'm truly unbiased when it comes to Indy vs. Batman and to me its pretty obvious that Nolan's "Batman" doesn't have the same wide appeal that Indy has.

Don't you ever, EVER compare me to "Family Guy," you hear me Kyle? Compare me to "Family Guy" again and so help me, I will kill you where you stand!

Do you have any idea what it's like? Everywhere I go: "Hey Cartman you must like 'Family Guy,' right?" "Hey, your sense of humor reminds me of 'Family Guy' Cartman!" I AM NOTHING LIKE FAMILY GUY! WHEN I MAKE JOKES THEY ARE INHERENT TO A STORY! DEEP SITUATIONAL AND EMOTIONAL JOKES BASED ON WHAT IS RELEVANT AND HAS A POINT, NOT JUST ONE RANDOM INTERCHANGEABLE JOKE AFTER ANOTHER!
(click to see my DVD collection)

Andy Sheets

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

I'm sorry, did I wake up in a parallel universe in which Batman Begins was labeled a box office disappointment?

Chuck Mayer

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

Well, most of us have readily pointed out that Indy will very likely gross more, so I don't think you can call BB fans sensitive about BO. We spent two weeks in 2005 wondering if we'd even get a sequel. And the BB box office was stellar. The opening weekend gross was very weak, but the overall BO was quite strong. I do disagree that BB established the "band" for new Batman films. The DVD sales indicate otherwise. Most of us believe, BO only, that BB established the bottom end of a Batman gross.

Is TDK going to bank $300M? Of course not...no one is claiming it will. They are claiming that it's probably going to outgross the original by a low double digit percentage, which I think is quite probable.

And no one cast doubt on Indy's (pop) cultural presence...they simply expressed more excitement for TDK.

As for $-sensitive fanbases, that's the SW fans, my friend. And even they aren't that bad anymore. Once they got a good movie (ROTS), they were chill on the BO

Bill GrandPre

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

No, but we do live in a universe where "Batman Begins" didn't pull in the money that "Batman" and "Batman Forever" did. We also live in a universe where "Batman Begins" didn't do nearly the business that its peers like "Spider-Man" and "X-Men" did. Even "Superman Returns" grossed more than "Batman Begins" worldwide.

I say that as pure fact. A lot of movies that "Batman Begins" could be reasonably compared to had grosses that were significantly higher. That's just the way it is.

In my last post I pointed out that "Begins" was successful enough to warrant a sequel. It's not as if it was a box office bomb.

I just think the incredibly hyperbolic enthusiasm towards "Batman Begins" you encounter everywhere on the internet sorta makes it seem like it was more financially successful than it really was. I mean, who would know that "Batman Begins" was only the 8th highest-grossing movie of 2005 by poking around on the internet? But like I said, if the internet was a reliable indicator of interest and success "Grindhouse" and "Snakes on a Plane" woulda made a lot more money.

Don't you ever, EVER compare me to "Family Guy," you hear me Kyle? Compare me to "Family Guy" again and so help me, I will kill you where you stand!

Do you have any idea what it's like? Everywhere I go: "Hey Cartman you must like 'Family Guy,' right?" "Hey, your sense of humor reminds me of 'Family Guy' Cartman!" I AM NOTHING LIKE FAMILY GUY! WHEN I MAKE JOKES THEY ARE INHERENT TO A STORY! DEEP SITUATIONAL AND EMOTIONAL JOKES BASED ON WHAT IS RELEVANT AND HAS A POINT, NOT JUST ONE RANDOM INTERCHANGEABLE JOKE AFTER ANOTHER!
(click to see my DVD collection)

Andy Sheets

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

In final numbers, sure, but I think you're ignoring trends too readily. I don't have time to give examples (stupid office work) but all I will say is that if you went to any exec or bean counter in Hollywood, I think they'd look at you funny if you tried to argue that Batman Begins had a "less-than-stellar" box office performance.

Bill GrandPre

Re: 2008 at the Box Office

I don't think so. Hollywood is full of examples of movies t