Superman Returns Sequel discussion thread - Page 8

CoreyII · 03-23-2007, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zack Gibbs

Do you work for Sony, or maybe the RIAA?

To address the question, lets look at Batman Begins. The makers of this film took much care to ensure that this was a "real world" Batman. It's because of this that the movie and the character of Batman work the way they do. To take this gritty realism and merge it with the clearly fantasy world inhabitied by Superman Returns would ruin the reality the filmmakers built.

To put it simply, in the world of Batman Begins there's no such thing as Super Powers. You can't see how introducing Superman would taint that?

I don't know Zack, the creators of Batman and Superman:The Animated Series made it work.

Batman: The Animated series was set in a gritty (that word is so oversused) and real world, yet somehow when the creators brought both heroes together, they made it work beautifully.

Eventually, the Justice League was the result and let me tell you from someone who is almost done watching the final season of Justice League Unlimited, I'm sorry to see this series end.

The entire run of the Justice League is in my opinion the best written superhero material ever outside of the comic book medium. The stories crafted by Bruce Timm and company far surpass anything written by Michael Dougherty, Dan Harris, and David Goyer. I'm definitely in the minority, but I still think pitting an inexperienced Batman against Rhas Al Ghul was not the way to go.

Anyway, not to get to far off subject, but I agree with Tony D, a Justice League film can be done with the right writers.

Sam Favate · 03-23-2007, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocean Phoenix

If this Justice League movie gets made, I doubt the group in it would be referred to as "JLA" after the de-emphasizing of American patriotism we saw with "Superman Returns", in which Perry White wasn't allowed to even get out the words "...the American way" in reciting the famous "Truth, Justice..." Superman catchphrase.

I think that line in SR showed some mature sensibilities. "...And the American way" is a bit hokey, IMO, and for a character who can literally save the entire world, is such chest-thumping nationalism really appropriate? SR played up the fact that Superman was sent to guide all of humanity, not just those in the USA.

Save that tag line for the next Rambo movie.

WillG · 03-23-2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

And the American way" is a bit hokey, IMO, and for a character who can literally save the entire world, is such chest-thumping nationalism really appropriate? SR played up the fact that Superman was sent to guide all of humanity, not just those in the USA.

I think it's a misunderstood line. I don't think Superman has "The American Way" as part of his creed to signify that he "belongs" to America. I think the meaning of it is to signify he fights for the ideals of America which are, for lack of deeper meaning, Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness." Ideals which do not apply in all countries of the world. It seemed to have been misunderstood by the writers as well who I believe read too much into it and attached political ideology that they disagreed with to "The American Way" Hence, the removal. The line could easilly re-dubbed for foreign audiences if that was the concern and, IIRC, the "official" the line was changed.

It was dumb for the film to remove "The American Way" from "Truth and Justice. Perry White remembers "Truth, Justice" but ingnores or just forgets "The American Way" part. And it's not like SR was a reboot either. It follows the continuity of S:TM where Superman gave Lois that interview where he stated that he fights for "Truth Justice and The American Way" They should have used the whole line or not have used it at all.

todd s · 03-23-2007, 04:35 PM

Batman and Supes can be in a JL movie...It all comes down to one thing.....

-WRITING!

Norm · 03-23-2007, 05:13 PM

I think its a little early but I'm putting spoiler tags just in case.

With all the news and rumors surrounding the sequel to Superman Returns lately, another rumor has come to hand regarding possible ideas being discussed for the movie.
As is the way with rumors, these come from someone who knows someone who supposedly works at Warner Bros., and should therefore be taken with a grain of salt...
The script has not yet been written, but discussions are being bounced around in regards to the major villains

Spoiler:

. Again, these are unsubstantiated rumors and should be taken as nothing more at this point in time.
http://www.supermanhomepage.com/news.php

TonyD · 03-23-2007, 05:42 PM

i'm not buying that rumour.
why would they make that guy that character.
he wasnt even a character in the movie he was just " the guy who happened to do that" in the movie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by todd s

Batman and Supes can be in a JL movie...It all comes down to one thing.....

-WRITING!

yes, thats whay i've been saying.

Norm · 03-23-2007, 05:47 PM

I agree, its kinda dumb if he's the same character, but they said he could be another character just the same actor.

Zack Gibbs · 03-23-2007, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoreyII

I don't know Zack, the creators of Batman and Superman:The Animated Series made it work.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying (and I don't think anyone else is either) that the basic characters can't be put together-- just the specific visions shown in Batman Begins and Superman Returns. I've seen all of the Timm DC shows and think they're excellent. That being said BTAS's first episode features Batman battaling a giant transforming man-bat. From the get-go it lends itself more to fantasy.

To retcon the world of Batman Begins so that it allows for Batman to fight on a super-hero crime fighting team that consists of
*Aliens who are invulnerable and fly, alien shape shifters, alien bird men.
*Amazon women with invisible planes.
*The amphibious king of the lost city of Atlantis-who can talk to dolphins and sperm whales.
*A member of an intergalactic police force who's greatest weakness is the color yellow

Contrast that with most of the Batman Begins fans who don't think future films should introduce Robin because he would just be too silly.

I should say that I personally don't feel this way and can watch any movie and see it for its own merits. When I watch The Empire Strikes Back, there is no such thing as f#$king miniclorines or whatever the hell they introduced in the prequels. Most fans don't seem to be this way however, and if you change something down the line it will irrevocably affect the whole series of films for them.

I think if they want to make a JL movie right it has to have Batman and Superman, they are the meat and potatoes. They should make at least one stand-alone film for most of the other leagers and bring them all together a few years from now in what would most certainly be the most expensive film in history. If WB makes the movie right there's no way it couldn't be. Halfassing it now just to subsidize the popularity of Superman is a crime.

I'll throw something random in here at the end about Superman Returns sequel to stay on topic. Metallo is stupid. I quit liked the idea of Braniac being alerted to Superman upon his return to krypton. I hope they go with something similar. I also recall that the filmmakers did say the Superman Returns had threads in it that would be directly picked up in the sequel, much like the original Superman. That would certainly fit the bill.

Ocean Phoenix · 03-23-2007, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillG

I think it's a misunderstood line. I don't think Superman has "The American Way" as part of his creed to signify that he "belongs" to America. I think the meaning of it is to signify he fights for the ideals of America which are, for lack of deeper meaning, Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness." Ideals which do not apply in all countries of the world. It seemed to have been misunderstood by the writers as well who I believe read too much into it and attached political ideology that they disagreed with to "The American Way" Hence, the removal. The line could easilly re-dubbed for foreign audiences if that was the concern and, IIRC, the "official" the line was changed.

It was dumb for the film to remove "The American Way" from "Truth and Justice. Perry White remembers "Truth, Justice" but ingnores or just forgets "The American Way" part. And it's not like SR was a reboot either. It follows the continuity of S:TM where Superman gave Lois that interview where he stated that he fights for "Truth Justice and The American Way" They should have used the whole line or not have used it at all.

Thanks, Will, that's part of the point I was trying to make with the article I linked. I'm not even American, so don't think this is the opinion of someone being irritatingly overpatriotic. I was just disappointed by the way the line was disrespected in the movie (like the writer of the article I posted) as a fan of the Superman mythos and the first two Superman movies. I understand the writers of "Superman Returns" didn't want to sound exclusionary towards the world outside the United States so they altered the line and showed Superman going around the world to save people, but even if I can see the logic behind the decision, I still think it was a stupid one.

WillG · 03-23-2007, 08:08 PM

Quote:

I understand the writers of "Superman Returns" didn't want to sound exclusionary towards the world outside the United States

See, I don't even believe that was the reason. As I said, "The American Way" could have easilly been re-debbed for the rest of the world (and I must wonder, if that if "The American Way" is such a marketing concern for the rest of the world, would the Salkinds have allowed it considering their whorish reputation plus the fact that they aren't even American?)

I do believe that the real reason for the removal of the line was because of leftist Hollywood's embarassment by the Bush administration (just saying). Hence my comment about attributing politics to the part of Superman's creed which ironically is supposed to transcend politics and be about the base tenents of what America stands for. It was still "Truth, Justice and The American Way" in 1978, after Vietnam and Watergate. Ther