Richard--W

This post is prompted by a discussion under the John Ford / John Wayne thread.

Everybody should take a look at THE UNFORGIVEN (1960), directed by John Huston, released on DVD by MGM. Like THE SEARCHERS, it's written by Alan LeMay, and like most of his books, takes place in central Texas and accurately conveys how settlers thought, spoke and behaved in the mid-1800s. Faithful to the book. It reverse the situation from THE SEARCHERS; it's about an indian girl raised by whites whose indian family wants her back, or else. The other settlers want her returned to the tribe to prevent an attack, even though she can't survive among them because she's been raised white. Internally she feels the indian heritage stirring.

I've never seen an intelligent discussion about this vastly under-rated western. Perhaps because of a deadening incongrous Neopolitan music score that's actually worse than the score in MAJOR DUNDEE. What was Dimitri Tiomkin thinking of?

"... little by little the look of the country
changes because of the people we admire."
dialog in HUD (1963)

Robert Crawford

Richard,
I'm moving this thread to Movies because if we're going to discuss this film in much detail then that's the area of the forum in which this discussion should take place.

Personally, this is another favorite of mine due to Lancaster, Murphy, Gish and Hepburn's performances.





Crawdaddy

G.W. McLintock: Camille, you're on your own.

Mark_TS

Its been one of my favorites for a long time-Audry Hepburn is lovely-

"He who panics first gets at least some of his money back." -KD

"He who panics first gets at least some of his money back." -KD

Robert Crawford

Also, Audie Murphy's character reminds me a little of Ethan Edwards.






Crawdaddy

G.W. McLintock: Camille, you're on your own.

Richard--W

Really?
Cash reminds you of Ethan Edwards?
In what way?

"... little by little the look of the country
changes because of the people we admire."
dialog in HUD (1963)

Robert Crawford

They're both racists, but in the end, they do have a sense of family loyalty over their racist views.






Crawdaddy

G.W. McLintock: Camille, you're on your own.

Richard--W

I'm not sure I should go down this road on Home Theater Forum, but I respectfully disagree.
There are no racists in THE UNFORGIVEN or in THE SEARCHERS.

Anglos were terrified of Comanches in 1800s Texas, and with good reason.
Likewise, Comanches hated Anglos and practiced their own war of genocide against them -- usually going after Anglo women first.
Factual History is clear on that, the book and film reflect it, and audiences understood it for a long time.
When the facts becomes politicized, it's no longer history, it's something else.

Alan LeMay didn't write about racism. THE UNFORGIVEN reflects the experience and understanding of the time. It's a remarkable book and film in that respect. Cash is voicing the common opinion of the day; but that doesn't mean he's racist, it means he's scared to death of Comanches because he knows what they're capable of. Look at it this way: compared to a Comanche warrior, Hannibal Lector was a toddler.

"... little by little the look of the country
changes because of the people we admire."
dialog in HUD (1963)

Robert Crawford

Yes, we've been down that road too many times already on this forum so you're welcome to your point of view as I respectfully disagree with you.

By the way, I'm not talking about any novels, but the way the films and the characters were presented to the film audience in which most were either unaware or have little knowledge of the novels. Any in-depth discussion about the novels is for another place and forum.





Crawdaddy

G.W. McLintock: Camille, you're on your own.

Richard--W

The filmmakers, writers and actors responsible for The Searchers and The Unforgiven were not racists. The films being presented before the public are not about racism, and there's no racism in them. I'm not so free with this term. It trivializes and misleads. The source material -- or novels and the historical facts which underpin the novels and the films alike -- is useful insofar as it proves this point. But I think the issue of racism is more important to you personally, than is the intent of the filmmakers.

"... little by little the look of the country
changes because of the people we admire."
dialog in HUD (1963)

Robert Crawford

I never said the filmmakers including writers and actors were racists. Also, have it your on way about the films not having racism as part of the storyline, but others see it differently.


You don't know me well enough to make that assumption!






Crawdaddy

G.W. McLintock: Camille, you're on your own.