Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged) - Page 76

TheBat · 07-16-2008, 05:19 PM

I am no fan of bad boys 2.. lets keep that movie out of the conversation.

Jacoeb

DavidPla · 07-16-2008, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwin-S

Not applicable. Comparing whether Godfather is better made than Pee-wee's Big Adventure is a straw man. The two films are in vastly different genres and designed to meet different objectives.

The two films being discussed are within the same genre and have the same main character. The argument of whether one is better than the other is specific. My contention was that if the viewer liked Batman and Robin better than Batman Begins then it stands to reason that the first one better met his criteria for an enjoyable Batman film: therefore, for him, it was a better made film than Batman Begins.

Alright, how about this. I think X2 is the better film but I enjoy watching X3 more. There IS a difference between knowing something is better but enjoying something else more.

Another example.. I enjoy eating ice cream as a dessert more than strawberries. But strawberries are better for me and will help me better in the long run of my life

Quote:

Also cutting random images with repetitious dialogue and cutting them together does not constitute a valid criticism of the film, since it takes those images out of context with the rest of the film. The clip is funny but essentially meaningless.

Oh it's just a fun clip. And probably a better movie than the actual movie.

TravisR · 07-16-2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent M

I never thought I'd find anyone else on HTF who felt the same way about this movie as I do. Even though it was destroyed by nearly all the critics, I absolutely LOVED it. I know it's mindless, crude, and very non-PC(which is always a good thing in my book), but I appreciated the fact that Michael Bay just said "f**k it, let's blow up as much s**t as we possibly can for two hours". I wish they'd all get back on board for Bad Boys III.

I normally hate dumb 'spolsion movies and I loved Bad Boys II for the same reasons that you stated.

Steve Christou · 07-16-2008, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwin-S

I sure wouldn't call someone a moron because his or her opinion of a movie doesn't coincide with mine.

I don't think that Batman and Robin is a better movie than Batman Begins, but if someone thinks otherwise then so what. All it means, is that their criteria for a good Batman flick differs from mine.

If you kids thought Batman & Robin was bad you should see some of the Japanese junk I've watched recently. Machine Girl anyone?

I like Batman Begins, I like the different direction it took but my favorite Batman film remains Tim Burton's 1989 gothic classic which was a massive success back then. Danny Elfman's Batman theme is a big favorite too.

Looking forward to seeing Dark Knight, though maybe not as deliriously as you guys seem to be. If it's as good as Iron Man I'll be very happy.

Russell G · 07-16-2008, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

Even when attempting to view both movies subjectively and respecting the fact that both are different adaptations of the same character, I can't think of one way that Batman and Robin is a better film than Batman Begins.

Bat Skates

Steve Christou · 07-16-2008, 06:01 PM

Quote:

I can't think of one way that Batman and Robin is a better film than Batman Begins.

Well I like Uma Thurman a lot more than I do Katie Holmes for a start, though Uma was pretty dreadful in Batman.

Edwin-S · 07-16-2008, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Christou

I like Batman Begins, I like the different direction it took but my favorite Batman film remains Tim Burton's 1989 gothic classic which was a massive success back then. Danny Elfman's Batman theme is a big favorite too.

The first one is my favourite out of the earlier iteration of the character. I didn't much care for the sequels. Although, I will be tempted to pick up the second one when it comes out on Blu.

I'm not fussy for the storyline. I thought it was a little too over-the-top, but....damn....I like the scene where Catwoman handflips toward Batman and The Penguin, stops, says MEOW and the whole block goes up. I don't care what anyone says....that is classic. I'd get it on Blu for that scene alone.

Russell G · 07-16-2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Christou

Well I like Uma Thurman a lot more than I do Katie Holmes for a start, though Uma was pretty dreadful in Batman.

And Clooney was a wicked Bruce Wayne, the best ever matter of fact! Lots to like about Batman & Robin!

DavidPla · 07-16-2008, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell G

And Clooney was a wicked Bruce Wayne, the best ever matter of fact! Lots to like about Batman & Robin!

WRONG! Clooney was terrible all around, by far the worst Batman or Bruce Wayne from all the films. Bobbing your head does not make you a good Bruce Wayne (or Batman for that matter).

Paul_Scott · 07-16-2008, 06:11 PM

Steve,
what qualities does the Burton film have that appeal to you more than Begins?
What components of the film make you feel satiated as a viewer or a Batman fan.Not planning on being argumentative, just curious.

Brandon Conway · 07-16-2008, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwin-S

Not applicable. Comparing whether Godfather is better made than Pee-wee's Big Adventure is a straw man. The two films are in vastly different genres and designed to meet different objectives.

The two films being discussed are within the same genre and have the same main character. The argument of whether one is better than the other is specific. My contention was that if the viewer liked Batman and Robin better than Batman Begins then it stands to reason that the first one better met his criteria for an enjoyable Batman film: therefore, for him, it was a better made film than Batman Begins.

Also cutting random images with repetitious dialogue and cutting them together does not constitute a valid criticism of the film, since it takes those images out of context with the rest of the film. The clip is funny but essentially meaningless.

I don't get the idea of a "guilty pleasure". I either like the film or I don't. If I like the film then I don't feel guilty about liking it. Other people may hate it but ultimately that is no concern of mine. I sure wouldn't call someone a moron because his or her opinion of a movie doesn't coincide with mine.

I don't think that Batman and Robin is a better movie than Batman Begins, but if someone thinks otherwise then so what. All it means, is that their criteria for a good Batman flick differs from mine.

This is where the argument of taste vs. art/aesthetics/craftsmanship comes in. The "better to me despite what anyone else or any attempt at an objective evaluation" argument is one of taste; it is what it is, and ultimately people like what they like. The latter is the more scholarly, historical, "important" (at least in regards to film criticism) method. Often conversations of these types have impasses because one person is arguing under the standards of Criteria A and the other is arguing under the standards of Criteria B.

Under Criteria B, there is no dispute - across the board in all respects, Batman Begins is the superior work.

Under Criteria A - "whatever floats your boat" is the penultimate requirement.

Most people do both. I loved Hot Rod under Criteria A, but there's no way it's a great or honestly even a good film under Criteria B.