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[ Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged) ]

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Old 06-26-2008, 10:53 AM   #1951 of 2280
DavidPla
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Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory S.
And Bill, Nolan did consult the originator (in terms of his initial introduction to the comic) of the Joker for this interpretation of this character in The Dark Knight.

Exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill GrandPre
Nolan has gone on-record saying he didn't consult any Joker comics for his take on the character.

Where are you getting this from? Nolan has mentioned on numerous occasions that he's been using the first two original Joker appearances as inspiration for the film.

Horowitz: I take it [the Joker] will be less Cesar Romero and Jack Nicholson than the Joker we saw portrayed in a comic like The Killing Joke?

Nolan: Yes. I would certainly point to The Killing Joke but I also would point very much to the first two appearances of the Joker in the comic. If you look at where the Joker comes from there’s a very clear direction that fits what we’re doing very well.

Better Than Fudge » Exclusive! Dirt on The Dark Knight!

Last edited by DavidPla : 06-26-2008 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 06-26-2008, 01:28 PM   #1952 of 2280
Nicholas Martin
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Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)


I think we've all made our case here.




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Old 06-26-2008, 03:16 PM   #1953 of 2280
todd s
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Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)


Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidPla
Exactly

Where are you getting this from? Nolan has mentioned on numerous occasions that he's been using the first two original Joker appearances as inspiration for the film.

Horowitz: I take it [the Joker] will be less Cesar Romero and Jack Nicholson than the Joker we saw portrayed in a comic like The Killing Joke?

Nolan: Yes. I would certainly point to The Killing Joke but I also would point very much to the first two appearances of the Joker in the comic. If you look at where the Joker comes from there’s a very clear direction that fits what we’re doing very well.

Better Than Fudge » Exclusive! Dirt on The Dark Knight!

+1

Sorry Bill...




Bring back John Doe! Or at least resolve the cliff-hanger with a 2hr movie or as an extra on a dvd release.
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Old 06-26-2008, 06:42 PM   #1954 of 2280
MikeRS
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Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)


I wouldn't read Traver's review if you want to go spoiler-free. He completely implies
Spoiler:
Rachel's death being a big part of Two Face's motivation
.

Yeah, it's just implied -but I'd say pretty transparent within the context of the review.

Spoiler:
And this could be another reason Katie opted out of the role.



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Old 06-26-2008, 06:44 PM   #1955 of 2280
Cory S.
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Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)


Nieuws - Heath Ledger's Joker is one scary motherf*cker - Filmfocus.nl - Je blijft kijken!

Another review. Short and to the point but man, could Nolan and company have really reached this high?



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Old 06-26-2008, 09:36 PM   #1956 of 2280
Bill GrandPre
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Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)


Quote:
It seems to me that Bill's complaint is that Nolan has made the characters and the setting too nuanced, too well-thought out, and too detailed.

The script by Nolan and Goyer isn't "Citizen Kane". People go on and on about the psychology of Batman but there's really never been any depth to the character. He's a cut-and-dry character, his psychology is black-and-white. His behavior is as simple as "b happened because of a", there's really nothing to it. He fights crime because his parents are murdered, and the character never deviates from that, he's always going to behave the same way that he always does and there's never a point with the character where he is going to be faced with a choice and 100% of the audience isn't going to be able to predict what his choice will be.

The rest of the script is loaded with kung-fu movie cliches, one-dimensional characters (oh, I forgot, they're played by respected actors!) and a "somebody poisoned the water hole!" ending straight out of the Adam West series.

I guess the problem with "Batman Begins" and everything I've seen of "The Dark Knight" is that Nolan thinks that he can change what it is by taking it too seriously (why so serious?) and turning it into some sort of prestigious film and ultimately I find that more insulting to the source material than anything Joel Schumacher ever did. I mean, you can say what you want about the great Batman creators over the years but I don't think any of them ever thought realism was the way to go. Frank Miller didn't try to make his "Batman" stories realistic.

I've said this before, it comes down to realism vs. believability and Nolan apparently isn't aware of the difference. The character of Batman is fundamentally unrealistic and the more you try to bring the character down to earth the less-believable it all becomes, but Nolan's pretentiousness has overwhelmed his ability to see that putting dynamic characters like Batman and the Joker in "down to earth" setting isn't appropriate. It's like he's trying to make the characters into something they're not.

I'm still looking for that quote where Nolan admitted to not even directly quoting Joker appearances, I'll either edit or post another reply when I find it.



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Old 06-26-2008, 11:05 PM   #1957 of 2280
Brandon Conway
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Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)


Well then we agree to disagree. I appreciate when an adaptation goes further than the source material if the human condition is the subject of exploration. It worked for The Godfather, for which the source novel was a relatively trashy crime tale. I for one see plenty of room for psychological and human condition exploration in the Batman mythos, and I'm glad Nolan & company are going there.



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Old 06-26-2008, 11:54 PM   #1958 of 2280
Brent M
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Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill GrandPre

I guess the problem with "Batman Begins" and everything I've seen of "The Dark Knight" is that Nolan thinks that he can change what it is by taking it too seriously (why so serious?) and turning it into some sort of prestigious film and ultimately I find that more insulting to the source material than anything Joel Schumacher ever did.



I don't mean to be a dick, but a statement like that gives you zero credibility in my eyes when it comes to discussing the Batman franchise.



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Old 06-27-2008, 12:01 AM   #1959 of 2280
Tim Glover
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Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)


Bill, you make some good points in stating what you feel but I differ with you on this. The very things that made the 'comics' are the things that tend to really pull me out in a film version. So I guess in some ways I want my cake and icing? I think I said that wrong. Give me the basic characters per se but please for the love of God make it as real and gritty as you can without sacrificing the source material.

Many of the reasons I loved Superman Returns so much was the personal touches of it and Superman's characterization. Not really 'true' to the character I guess but it was that element that hooked me and then once hooked, made me believe the rest of the it.

Nolan nailed Batman Begins in a way none of us really saw coming.



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Old 06-27-2008, 12:26 AM   #1960 of 2280
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Re: Batman Begins' sequel: The Dark Knight (Merged)


I like the burton movies better then begins.. the first time that batman was treated as dark material.. it was serious, but fun at the same time. the begins movie is taken too seriously. I say that the flashback with the 89 movie worked better for the material. burton could have told the origin like how they did superman. start from the beginning. he felt that doing the flashback worked better for the material and I agree with him.
the problem is that most comic book fans consider begins the best comic book movie ever.. its not. sad to say.. its better then most. superman the movie still owns that title. I know that the comic book fans are going nuts over the new movie.. they will claim is the best comic book movie ever right next to the first one.. we will have to wait and see. I have to take the reaction from the fans with a grain of salt about how they like the new batman series. since I disagree with them.

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