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08-24-2004, 09:52 AM
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#181 of 206 
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Crawdaddy
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Location: Michigan
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Let me rephrase my earlier comment. Let's stop the name-calling and the references about bitching now!
Crawdaddy
G.W. McLintock: Camille, you're on your own.
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08-24-2004, 09:56 AM
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#182 of 206
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Local Time: 09:03 PM
Local Date: 01-07-2009
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Well, since this thread is all about semantics, I said he sounded like a jerk, I didn't say he was one, there is a difference. Which is why the very next line I stated that I hoped that he wasn't trying to do sound like on on purpose.
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I wasn't aware I was "bitching and whining". I thought I was expressing an opinion over a trend that I had noticed regarding "trashing film's you haven't seen" not expressing opinions. There IS a difference.
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No, actually there isn't a difference. When they trash a film, they are stating their opinion, informed or not. They just happen to be doing it in a beligerent, harsh, manner that is irritating. |
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08-24-2004, 09:57 AM
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#183 of 206
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Local Time: 09:03 PM
Local Date: 01-07-2009
Posts: 529
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Let me rephrase my earlier comment. Let's stop the name-calling and the references about bitching now!
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Fair enough, that was my fault for starting that little rant so I'll apologize for it. |
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08-24-2004, 10:09 AM
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#184 of 206
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Member
Join Date: Apr 1999
Local Time: 08:03 PM
Local Date: 01-07-2009
Posts: 5,670
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Actually, there IS a difference.
When someone trashes a film they haven't seen, I don't consider that an opinion, I consider that basically a thread fart. And I have challenged those "farts" many times.
You may see no difference, but I do.
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus.
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08-24-2004, 10:46 AM
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#185 of 206
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Local Time: 09:03 PM
Local Date: 01-07-2009
Posts: 529
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I don't consider that an opinion
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And here is where the problem lies. You have a different definition of the word than I do so we'll never be able to agree. Just for the record though, Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary says this...
Main Entry: opin·ion
Pronunciation: &-'pin-y&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin opinion-, opinio, from opinari
1 a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b : APPROVAL, ESTEEM
2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view
3 a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based |
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08-24-2004, 11:18 AM
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#186 of 206
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Member
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Jonathan, you have been advised in no uncertain terms to stop persuing this line of discussion. Please heed Mr. Crawford's admonition. Seriously.
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08-24-2004, 11:20 AM
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#187 of 206
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Member
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Local Time: 01:03 AM
Local Date: 01-08-2009
Posts: 463
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I really don't understand this... seven pages.... my god.
What is so hard to understand? No one is saying you can't
have your opinion, no one is even saying you're not allowed to post it,
what is being ASKED is that if you haven't seen a movie, then don't TELL us it sucked. By all means, tell us you THINK it will suck, tell us it LOOKS LIKE it will suck, but the point
trying to be made is that if you haven't seen it, no matter how many previews
you've seen, or previous films by the same director... if you
haven't watched this particular movie, there is no way in hell
that you can know for a definite fact that it sucks. Where in
that is there a seven page discussion??? Where in that is an attack
on your right to state your opinion??
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08-24-2004, 11:24 AM
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#188 of 206
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Member
Location: Ajijic, Jalisco, Mexíco
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Local Time: 07:03 PM
Local Date: 01-07-2009
Posts: 11,458
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Guys, only the first line was meant for him!
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`
Thanks for the clarification, Glenn. No doubt it was just me, but I was unable to figure out what you meant. Now I see the light.
ˇTime is not my master!
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08-24-2004, 11:48 AM
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#189 of 206
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Member
Join Date: Nov 1998
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This is my last post in the thread because the horse is glue by now, but I just thought of this applicable anecdote.
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Really? Ever look at a picture of Poison? Ratt? Cinderalla?
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Some decade or so ago I took my college entrance exam and tested into advanced English. Not hurray for me or anything, just making the point that the essay was apparently not complete crap.
The topic - discuss someone you judged a certain way but later came to respect or were influenced by.
my subject - Henry Rollins. My opinions of his intelligence and attitude on life were formed from his Black Flag days, but later I realized he was far different than that (druken skater punk with no respect for anyone). Not only his solo musical work but his spoken word tours showed me a side of him that was not only different than his muscle bound, buzz cut hair, tattoo'd look implied. It was also different than the image he'd already given off with the music BF made.
I realized I had judged him and his music incorrectly and it taught me just how wrong I could be in judging a person.
Let me also add that I'm a strong defender of judging a book by its cover, at least to some degree, with the point being that everyone advertises what they want to be viewed as and a person should expect a reaction the matches how they are presenting themselves.
But the fact is that often what one person sees in a look or style is not what another one sees, thus there is a misunderstanding of what is being said with a look. Not to mention that its still not the music that is being judged at that point, lest you assume that Michael Bolton's music sounds like Whitesnake (barring his early career that is). Funny the hair is so similar.
Its important for the person to recognize how others might view his style/look, and important for others to consider that there might be something more to it than that.
The same can be said of film ad campaigns. Sometimes the film is far different than the ads imply, not only in quality but in story/style.
Okay, this is just unintentionally funny...
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intention of this board is to encourage dissenting viewpoints and good discussion (good discussion usually comes from dissenting opinion).
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I think it takes a bit more than that...
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...
Man: No you DIDN'T!
Other Man: Oh yes I did!
Man: No you DIDN'T!
Other Man: Oh yes I did!
Man: Oh look, this isn't an argument!
(pause)
Other Man: Yes it is!
Man: No it isn't!
(pause)
Man: It's just contradiction!
Other Man: No it isn't!
Man: It IS!
Other Man: It is NOT!
Man: You just contradicted me!
Other Man: No I didn't!
Man: You DID!
Other Man: No no no!
Man: You did just then!
Other Man: Nonsense!
Man: (exasperated) Oh, this is futile!!
(pause)
Other Man: No it isn't!
Man: Yes it is!
(pause)
I came here for a good argument!
Other Man: AH, no you didn't, you came here for an argument!
Man: An argument isn't just contradiction.
Other Man: Well! it CAN be!
Man: No it can't!
An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
Other Man: No it isn't!
Man: Yes it is! It isn't just contradiction.
Other Man: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position!
Man: Yes, but it isn't just saying "no it isn't".
Other Man: Yes it is!
Man: No it isn't!
Other Man: Yes it is!
Man: No it isn't!
Other Man: Yes it is!
Man: No it ISN'T! Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says.
Other Man: It is NOT!
Man: It is!
Other Man: Not at all!
Man: It is!
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If that isn't the point here then I don't know what is. |
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08-24-2004, 12:17 PM
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#190 of 206
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Administrator
Join Date: Jul 1999
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Movie discussion would be more useful if people subscribed to the notion:
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"You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion." -- Harlan Ellison quoting Gustave Flaubert
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When you hit that "submit reply" button, have you considered how your words/opinions make you look like to others reading your words/opinions?
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08-24-2004, 12:46 PM
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#191 of 206
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Local Time: 05:03 PM
Local Date: 01-07-2009
Posts: 97
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I think it takes a bit more than that...
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Well, yes, I didn't mean people just going back and forth over the same thing (like this thread), and I think you knew that as well.
Thanks. |
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