[Inspector Hammer!]

I usually end up killing threads this old because nobody wants to talk about it anymore, but here goes.

For those that loved the film, I second every point made, terrific entertainment! Also, some of the more imaginative insights, like what Vincent did before going private etc, make the film the more deeper for me and i'll apply those ideals upon my next viewing.

One thing though regarding the whole business of Annie getting to the buliding early and screwing up Vincent's game plan, you have to remember that he couldn't have even known that she was one of his targets.

After Max gets rather ballsy and throws Vincent's work-up into the freeway (not smart, I half expected Vincent to cap him right their out of sheer anger and disbelief), he sends Max into the club to get the back-ups because he didn't know either the identity, location or both of his last two marks.

If Vincent knew right from the get go that Annie was one of his marks and knew where to find her, but didn't know the identity and/or location of his final one, he would have had Max drive him to her building, kill her, and THEN drive to the club to get the back-ups. Vincent would have reasoned "I'll go kill the one I DO know about and save the unknown one for last." I'm suprised nobody caught this, it was fairly obvious to me.

Also, I totally bought the fact that Max killed Vincent in a close quarters shoot-out because of some prevailing and unusual factors, remember that Vincent has been running around for at least 10 to 15 min with a bullet wound somewhere on his face (I think his ear as someone pointed out), and it's plausable that he was beginning to get disoriented by either exhaustion, pain but more likely both. Also, just as the final shots were fired, the lights in the train car flickered causing both men to lose focus on anything, they were firing blind and it just so happened it was Max who got the "lucky" hit.

As for the theory of connecting HEAT and this film...BRILLIANT!

It totally works! The events at the beginning of HEAT really COULD concievably begin the morning after the events in Collateral. I must watch these films back to back now, stopping Collateral just before the end credits and starting HEAT after the Warner Bros logo's.

[ZacharyTait]

Excellent post John.

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One thing though regarding the whole business of Annie getting to the buliding early and screwing up Vincent's game plan, you have to remember that he couldn't have even known that she was one of his targets.

After Max gets rather ballsy and throws Vincent's work-up into the freeway (not smart, I half expected Vincent to cap him right their out of sheer anger and disbelief), he sends Max into the club to get the back-ups because he didn't know either the identity, location or both of his last two marks.

If Vincent knew right from the get go that Annie was one of his marks and knew where to find her, but didn't know the identity and/or location of his final one, he would have had Max drive him to her building, kill her, and THEN drive to the club to get the back-ups. Vincent would have reasoned "I'll go kill the one I DO know about and save the unknown one for last." I'm suprised nobody caught this, it was fairly obvious to me.

I think the reason why he saves Annie for last is because she is a employee of the U.S. government and killing her first would trigger an all-out manhunt. By killing the others first, he diverts police attention away from when he is going to kill Annie and buy himself time to get the hell out of L.A.

I totally love the idea of a Heat/Collateral marathon. I just might do it Sunday.

[Ernest Rister]

The "dead man in a public place" thing is not an Urban Legend. In the winter of 2000, I went to have breakfast, catch a movie, and do some shopping down in Santa Monica with a good buddy of mine. On the way, in Santa Monica, we were stopped by a red light. To my right, sitting on a bench at a bus stop was an old homeless man, looking up at the sky, mouth open, right hand open like he was waiting to catch something being dropped from God. He didn't blink, he just sat there with that expression.

The previous night had been an unusually cold one for LA and Santa Monica, and my first thought was that the man had died from the cold.

"Is that guy dead?" I said to my friend, just as the light changed. We moved on.

We eat. We go to the movies. We go blow some cash at the mall.

Driving back home, about 6 hours later, we get to that same red light and the same bus stop. The same homeless man is sitting there with the exact same expression...we hear a siren, and traffic stops as an ambulance arrives on the scene.

6 hours later.

Now, imagine how many times the LA bus rumbled by that stop in those six hours. How many people got on and got off the bus, how many people walked across the intersection or walked by the man's bench, how many people were stopped at light and ultimately drove right by him (like we did)? And who knows when he really died. Is it possible he had been there even longer? Who knows.

Urban legend that a man could die on a Los Angeles city bus and be drove around for hours with no one noticing?

More like commomplace event.

[Edwin-S]

I think there is a big difference between the two scenarios.

In the first scenario people are quickly passing by a possibly dead or sleeping man sitting on a street bench. In that situation people may speculate like you did but, since they are on the move, speculation is all it becomes.

The second scenario involves sitting beside a dead person for an extended period of time. People are more relaxed and will spend time observing their surroundings while they travel to their destination. I find it hard to believe that a person would not notice that the person sitting beside them has turned blue or is turning blue.

[Edwin-S]

Regarding Collateral. I still cannot think of a good and logical reason for Vincent being assigned a hit on the D.A. All of the witnesses in her case against the mobster, who had assigned the hits, were dead. Her case was blown. It was not in the mobster's interest to have a hit performed on the D.A. In fact, having her murdered would have been disastrous for him. He would automatically have become the prime suspect in her murder and the heat coming down oh him would have been huge. Assigning a hit on the D.A was stupid and illogical.

The only reason for assigning a hit on her was as a cheap, transparent, and cliched way to advance the story. It was a lazy way to allow Max to play the big hero and get the girl in the end. Using such a cliched method to advance the story brought the movie down a couple of notches. It was still a good movie with a great sense of visual style and sound. The movie would have been that much greater if the filmmaker hadn't opted for a ridiculous and illogical last act.

[Ernest Rister]

You're making a habit out of arguing with me, E-S.

"In the first scenario people are quickly passing by a possibly dead or sleeping man sitting on a street bench..."

How do you know how quickly people were passing by? Have you ever stood on a corner and waited for a bus in Santa Monica? You're usually waiting there for at least a few minutes. Meanwhile on the bench is a man with eyes wide open, mouth open, hand extended -- a man who never blinks.

The corner was right outside a popular diner. Not Denny's but very similar. I'd wager thousands of people passed by this man in those six hours, people may have actually sat next to him on the park bench.

Six hours between the time I saw him and questioned his status as one of the living, and an ambulance showing up. It's a true story. It happened. I saw it with my own eyes.

The point Vincent makes in the movie is that people in LA are so self absorbed they fail to see the world around them, which fits perfectly into his world view that human beings are just blobs of matter on a spinning tiny rock in minute corner of a vast universe. Unseeing blobs of self-absorbed automatons unable to see the big picture.

Now Vincent is a walking contradiction. He is essentially the Angel of Death, and as such, he has learned how precious and fleeting life is. He is able to take life because he has such contempt for human beings who are unable to see the big picture. His interactions with Max express his great sadness and frustration with the world, how people are afraid to maximize their time here. The story about the dead man on a city bus being driven round the city fits perfectly into his contempt -- I'm saying Vincent's story isn't too far of a stretch, I saw something in LA very similar with my own eyes.

The larger contradiction though is that he inspires life in Max, like some sort of dark muse. Like giving a condemned man his last meal, he inspires Max to bite into the fruit of life. He takes pleasure in life, takes pleasure in seeing Max live. Vincent clearly regards life with great value, hence the contradiction.

[Brian_cyberbri]

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In fact, having her murdered would have been disastrous for him. He would automatically have become the prime suspect in her murder and the heat coming down oh him would have been huge. Assigning a hit on the D.A was stupid and illogical.

The heat already was coming down on him. Unless they had security cameras showing him do the hit, everyone would of course assume he was involved, but there would be no way they could link it back to him.

Why is there a witness protection program? You testify against someone, but if you die, they would automatically suspect that person you testified against. But they kill witnesses anyway, because they can. They don't care if. They do whatever it takes to not go to jail.

And besides, killing the DA on top of all the witnesses would also send a message to the authorities that if you want to go after this guy, you're putting your life on the line and will probably end up dead. She was going to serve as an example.

[Greg_R]

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The Federal Building sequence. No alarms; one guard; Vincent killing the power on the 16th floor when his victim most likely has no reason to be nervous, and when *he's* the one feeling his way through an unfamiliar environment

Vincent had already been to that building (beginning of the movie, he was familiar with the floor) and he had a pass to get through the turnstile (no alarms). IMO, the reason he cut the power was because he didn't want security cameras or people in other buildings see him shoot his victim (only a few lights were on in the building so it would be noticeable to anyone watching from outside).

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The viewer shouldn't have to go back and watch it again to catch something so key, especially when missing it renders the action ridiculous.

I prefer subtlety in a film.

[Inspector Hammer!]

I'm actually in the process of watching the film again right now, and I had to stop because I spotted something that just shouldn't be there. Why on Earth does Jamie Foxx's mother have a picture of The O.C.'s Mischa Barton in her hospital room?

Yep, you read it right, it's at 50:12 on the dvd right behind Foxx when he tells his mom that Cruise is the one who bought her the flowers, when he moves out of the way so she can see him, the picture is right there on the shelf.

I really don't know who it is, but i'll be dammned if it doesn't look like MB!

[Mike Graham]

Max lied to his mother, saying he ran his own celebrity limo service. The autographed photos may be given to her to make her really believe what Max says he does.