Tim RH

Robert Crawford

I think this thread is on it's last legs with everybody given the opportunity to express their opinion about this subject matter, but the thread itself has gone off course.






Crawdaddy

G.W. McLintock: Camille, you're on your own.

David Ren

You still don't understand.

It is not about grouping someone. It's about grouping someone based purely of physical appearances.

----------------------

I will close out this thread with this:

Suppose there is a person of Japanese ancestry who is born in America. He has never been to Japan and frankly, could care less about Japan.

He is an American.

But you would label him Japanese because of the way he looks. And you would see that he is different from you because of the color of his skin. And you would never accept him as 100% American.

Even though there is no such thing as race.

Even though there is nothing in a person's DNA that differentiates race.

So this person is outcast.

And you go up to him and say "konnichwa. I am studying japanese. I have many friends who are japanese. My girlfriend is Japanese. I know a lot about your culture. Wanna grab some sushi with me later?"

And you don't know why he is offended. You don't know why he is hurt. You were just being a nice guy and offering to be his friend. But to him, you saw him as being different. All he wants to do is be accepted as a American. All his life, he wanted to be accepted as an American. BECAUSE that's what he is.

And you say to him, "I am really offended that Mickey Rooney poked fun at Japanese. Japanese are really great people."

And he wanted to punch you in the face and yell out at the top of his lungs, "BUT I AM NOT JAPANESE! I AM AMERICAN!"

But everytime you open your mouth, he knows he will never be American. As long as there are people like you in the world, he will never be fully accepted.

And you had the best of intentions. You were trying to sympathize with him and get to know him better.

Then one day, he has had it, He didn't want to be different anymore. He didn't want to be an outsider. He wanted to play baseball and eat pizza like everyone else. He wanted to date the blonde cheerleader and not be the token Asian guy. He has never been to Asia in his life, why should he be considered Asian?

So he finds people who share his frustrations: other Asians. And they bond together because they empathize with each other. They understand each other.

So all the Asians hang out together. All the blacks hang out together. All the hispanics hang out together. They are separated.

Do you see where this is going?

David

Ernest Rister

"Just look at the Columbine killers. They didn't feel they belonged to any kind of group, therefore they didn't fit in and were outcasts."

Oh, please. Are you seriously trying to associate group identity with homicidal narcissism? There were MANY factors at play at Columbine. If you want to dig deep into the phenomenon of social ostricism as it relates to school shootings, a better example would be Kip Kinkle, who tortured himself because of his failure to live up to the expectations heaped upon him, and finally snapped. The Columbine Killers did not snap...that was a case of Dominant Personality Disorder, one sick twisted nutjob preying upon a surrogate, each feeding into the other's fantasy. It wasn't a failure of "group identity" that made them shoot up their school.

"They were seen as being strange and shy. Maybe these misconceptions and prejudice had something to do with the extreme actions they took, don't you think?"

No. I don't blame the victims. Do You? I blame the parents for, oh, not noticing their kids had guns and bombs in their closets. I blame the parents for creating an atmosphere of hopelessness. I blame the two homicidal juveniles for their murders. I don't blame their victims.

Deja Vu.

Ernest Rister

"And you had the best of intentions."

I felt that. Great post. We are sympatico on this.

This is a classic flaw in the logic of certain progressive thinking -- the heart is in the right place (getting work for a minority largely under-represented in American media), but the means suggested are downright fascist. In the end, what happens is that these good-hearted people create the very same segregation and racial divisions that they think their noble goal will heal.

--Ernest Rister

Dan Rudolph

The girl in picture 3 was probably my best friend in high school. Her mother was a 1st generation immigrant, but she had never been to China, didn't speak a word of Chinese and hated it when people came up to her assuming she was interested in all things Asian.

My Collection

Cees Alons

Yes it is.
We'll close this conversation, not because anything went wrong just now or rules were violated.

Generally this thread has been great all over and most contributions seem very honest, personal and, yes, managed to stay courteous even when and where conclusions differed.

But there's a tendency to repeat arguments - probably a sign that most of the important arguments have been posted anyway - and letting it proceed might be counterproductive given its subject.

Thanks, David Ren, and thanks, every single poster here. Personally, I feel I really learned something from it all, and, as somebody said, isn't that what it's all about?
Getting educated?


Cees