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[ Michelle Yeoh, Gong Li and Zhang Ziyi land roles in Spielberg's GEISHA adaptation. World gets dumber ]

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Old 08-01-2004, 11:31 PM   #91 of 187
Jason_Els
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And by the by, the US has been accused of "cultural insensitivity" and "cultural imperialism" for decades now. This isn't a "new era", its the same old crap.

Very true.

If you go abroad you will find that anti-American and, more broadly, anti-western sentiments are increasing. If I were the PR agent for the producers I would have pointed out to them the necessity of considering how the film will play elsewhere for both cultural and financial reasons. Foreign boxoffice now accounts for more than half the revenue of major films. If there is a risk of offending some groups, even inadvertantly, then it is crucial to weight the risks in potential release markets. It is also equally important to not let your work become a propaganda tool of your critics or enemies.

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I just wish that didn't mean modern-day Westerners have to be crucified for the sins of their forebears.

We will be anyway. Much of the world operates on an extremely long historical memory that we, as a nation, have little concept of. Ethnic hatreds have resurfaced time and again amongst different groups since time immemorial and show no signs of stopping. Some causes of these hatreds go back hundreds or even thousands of years and those ancient events still cause distrust, even outright hatred and war up to these times.



For beauty is only a step removed from a burning terror we barely sustain, and we worship it for the graceful sublimity with which it disdains to consume us. - Rainer Maria Rilke

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Old 08-01-2004, 11:34 PM   #92 of 187
Jason_Els
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They can't control how the audience will react, and while they should be mindful of the potential reactions, they shouldn't be beholden to the viewers.

The investors, talent agents, and theater owners I'm sure would love to disagree with that.



For beauty is only a step removed from a burning terror we barely sustain, and we worship it for the graceful sublimity with which it disdains to consume us. - Rainer Maria Rilke

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Old 08-01-2004, 11:42 PM   #93 of 187
Cameron Yee
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Does anyone really think we're going to come to some agreement here?


No.

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And frankly, going back to the movie, shouldn't we wait to see the film before we draw conclusions?

I thought pre-judging films before they are released was an HTF member policy!
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Old 08-02-2004, 12:07 AM   #94 of 187
David Ren
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I guess I seem to be saying the same things over and over again so I'll just compress all my arguments in one post:

TOP TEN REASONS WHY IT IS UNNECCESSARY TO CAST JAPANESE ACTRESSES:

1. As a big budget movie, it is important to protect your investment and as of right now, there are NO recognizable Japanese actresses of name value. So even if they wanted to cast Japanese actors, they have NO ONE TO CAST. The Last Samurai had Tom Cruise so it wasn't a risk casting Ken Watanabe.

2. Chinese can pass for Japanese. There are no significant physiognomical differences between them. Any Japanese person watching this movie WILL NOT be able to tell the actresses are not Japanese (until they see the end credits for their names). Anyone who think they can are full of shit. Hollywood makeup artists are really good.

3. Actors should be able to play roles of varying ethnicities. Limiting yourself to one is limiting your range. There is not ONE single good actor in America who has not played a different ethnicity other than their own.

4. Gong, Zhang, and Yeoh are amazing actors and they will get the job done. If you hire an employee, the only question you need ask is: will they get the job done? If they will, that's all that matters.

5. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS RACE. Every evolutionary biologist knows this. There is only one race: The human race.

6. If it takes away roles from REAL Japanese actresses, then TOUGH SHIT FOR THEM. If they are good enough actresses, they will find a way to succeed. There is no such thing as luck in Hollywood. Giving them roles just because they are Japanese is unfair to other actors (like Gong, Zhang, and Yeoh).

7. I have no problem with Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffanys or Peter Sellers is his Asian roles. If you cannot laugh at yourself, you cannot love yourself. Plus, there were simply no "name" Asian actors available back then.

It is not Hollywood's job to find actors. It is the actor's job to find Hollywood. If there are no Asian actors working in Hollywood, don't blame Hollywood, BLAME THE ASIAN ACTORS.

8. To answer a Tim's question,

Quote:
I will pose one more question out there to Mr. David Ren: If you were to find yourself at an audition for a character who is of Chinese-descent, and you did the best job you could and truly felt that you were just as good as anybody else there or better, but instead they gave the role to a Japanese person or a Korean person simply because they either felt that person "looked" more Chinese (in their eyes) or they had more box-office draw or film experience, would you not take offense to that in some way?


No, because if they didn't cast me, then I wasn't that good. Period. If I walked in and completely BLEW THEM AWAY, made them laugh, made them cry, made them COMPLETELY BELIEVE I AM THE CHARACTER, to the point where they are thinking "That was incredible!", I would get the role no matter WHAT I LOOKED LIKE.

9. Film is art. The director is painting the canvas. He needn't be sensitive to everybody's feelings. If he wants to offend you, that's okay. Lots of great art works are offensive. In fact, if you are offended, he has provoked you in some way, and he has succeeded. He can cast monkeys in the Japanese roles if he wants to. If you aren't happy, just don't attend the movie. Go to a Garry Marshall movie instead.

10. BECAUSE THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY.

David
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Old 08-02-2004, 12:18 AM   #95 of 187
Stevan Lay
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Just another case of Hollywood assuming the audience for this won't be able to tell the difference between a Chinese face and a Japanese face.
Wouldn't the role(s) require these three actresses to put on heavy makeup anyway as a Geisha?
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Old 08-02-2004, 12:52 AM   #96 of 187
Dennis Pagoulatos
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I bet if they have to speak Japanese in the film, Japanese audiences will scoff much like they did through most of the Japanese speaking in KB Vol. 1 (Sonny Chiba's attempt at Japanese especially, was apparently impossible to understand for a native Japanese speaker!)

If there is no spoken Japanese by the 3 characters whatsoever, then I guess it won't matter at all if they're not Japanese.

-Dennis



He must have died while carving it!...
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Old 08-02-2004, 01:06 AM   #97 of 187
Cameron Yee
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I guess I seem to be saying the same things over and over again so I'll just compress all my arguments in one post:


I think your views are clear; some of us just don't agree with all of them.
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Old 08-02-2004, 01:06 AM   #98 of 187
David Ren
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Sonny Chiba's attempt at Japanese especially, was apparently impossible to understand for a native Japanese speaker!


That's odd considering that Sonny Chiba IS Japanese and has been in many Japanese movies.

David
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Old 08-02-2004, 01:12 AM   #99 of 187
Cameron Yee
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Sonny Chiba's attempt at Japanese especially, was apparently impossible to understand for a native Japanese speaker!


Native speakers of Mandarin also had problems with Michelle Yeoh and Chow Yun Fat's ability to speak the dialect in Crouching Tiger.
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Old 08-02-2004, 02:25 AM   #100 of 187
Dome Vongvises
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No you can't. You're just generalizing.

Wanna bet?

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That's like saying everybody with big lips and broad noses are black.

No it's not.

Quite frankly, I'm not sold on David's definition of racism.



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Old 08-02-2004, 02:44 AM   #101 of 187
Dan Rudolph
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