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07-30-2004, 03:07 AM
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#1 of 32
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Crawdaddy
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This thread is now designated the Official Discussion Thread for "The Manchurian Candidate" please, post all comments, links to outside reviews, film and box office discussion items to this thread.
All HTF member film reviews of "The Manchurian Candidate" should be posted to the Official Review Thread.
Thank you for your consideration in this matter.
Crawdaddy
G.W. McLintock: Camille, you're on your own.
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07-30-2004, 04:43 AM
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#2 of 32
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Crawdaddy
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I noticed this remake is getting very positive reviews which is good, since many of us here had serious doubts as to why a remake of this classic movie was being made.
Crawdaddy
G.W. McLintock: Camille, you're on your own.
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07-30-2004, 08:14 PM
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#3 of 32
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I'll assume up front that I won't have to spoilerize any discussion points that relate to the original version, so fair warning to those who've seen this one, but not the '62 version.
While the original is kind of evenly split in its focus between Raymond and Marco, this new version is definitely Marco-centric. I think Denzel is a great actor, so it's fine with me as far as it goes, just a different level of emphasis.
There isn't that much background on the brain-washing in this version. A few flashbacks here and there, mostly brief and impressionistic. Nothing that compares to the extended flower-discussion/brain-washing sequence in the original, which is some of the most insanely intense material I've ever seen in any movie. With no possible way of topping that, Demme and company focus more on Marco's struggles with what's happening to him. I prefer the original on this point. Some reviews I've seen have said that the conspiracy in this new version is more threatening because it's not as far-fetched as the original. I agree on that narrow point, but in purely cinematic terms, the awesome power of the brain-washing sequence in the original makes the resulting conspiracy in that version a lot more ominous to me.
There's almost nothing between Raymond and Josie in this version, just a perfunctory scene where they talk about their previous fling. The establishment of the love between them in the original, and the focus on his mother's resulting jealousy and possessiveness, make his killings of Josie and her father a shockingly tragic and gut-wrenching experience in that version (plus the all-time memorable bit of business of the shooting of Senator Jordan through the milk carton). There's not nearly as much behind it in this one.
But, one new direction that I liked a lot: a much more fleshed out role for "Rosie," Janet Leigh's character in the original. In that version, she was very enigmatic and hard to read, and while a lot of people conclude that she must be part of a wider Commie plot, sent as the "operator" to control Marco, I think there just isn't enough on-screen to work with to have that as a successful explanation. Maybe that was the intention of Frankenheimer and company, but it's one of the few things in their version that falls short for me. But now, with a more explicit and developed role (including a twist or two along the way), and a very engaging performance by Kimberly Elise, the character becomes quite memorable this time around.
Great moment in the new version: when he meets Rosie on the train, Marco hallucinates a vision of a fresh bullet-hole in her forehead, with blood slowly trickling down from it. Very powerful image, maybe the one moment where I think they were able to match the raw power of the hydrangea sequence of the original.
They weren't quite able to come up with anything memorable for how the brain-washees can be triggered by their operators. It's just the sequence of their names being repeated, ending with their full name. I can see why they wouldn't just want to do solitaire again, but that's such a great part of the original that I kind of wish they would have come up with something else this time. Of course, that could have run the risk of doing something stupid ("pass the time by playing...Minesweeper? Who the hell thought of this crap?!"), but there's probably something more modern that would have been cool.
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07-30-2004, 09:47 PM
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#4 of 32
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I thought it was a little too long, as in overstaying its welcome. By the time the end rolls around, I kept thinking "Come on, get on with it, Marco!" because by the time we get to the end, I knew how it was going to end, and it ended by-the-numbers in a "aren't we clever" wink but it wasn't that interesting when we finally to get there. I guess I'm saying the ride wasn't worth the payoff.
Oh, and Demme gives us just a taste of that disturbing Oedipal element and leaves most of the rest to our sordid imagination.
I could have remembered incorrectly, but I don't think Meryl Streep has seen Angela Lansbury's take on her character (as in hadn't seen the original film), so any interpretation of the role is solely Meryl's.
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07-30-2004, 10:03 PM
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#5 of 32
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Crawdaddy
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Quote:
| I guess I'm saying the ride wasn't worth the payoff. |
Yet, you give the film a "B-" in your posted review, does that mean if a film doesn't get at least a solid "B" from you, it's not worth seeing as far as you're concern?
Quote:
| I could have remembered incorrectly, but I don't think Meryl Streep has seen Angela Lansbury's take on her character (as in hadn't seen the original film), so any interpretation of the role is solely Meryl's. |
Is this an assumption on your part and if so, why?
Crawdaddy
G.W. McLintock: Camille, you're on your own.
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07-30-2004, 10:19 PM
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#6 of 32
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An IMDB trivia entry for this remake says that Streep didn't watch the original until after they had finished shooting. I don't know where that came from, but apparently Patrick isn't the only one who's heard it.
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07-30-2004, 10:44 PM
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#7 of 32
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Hmm. I'd have to give it a C+, maybe a B-. This just doesn't have the screen intensity that I felt the original does. It seems to lack that immediacy, urgency on the part of the actors.
Denzel is good in his role, and there are some great moments, but sometimes, he comes across as either over the top or too sedate. The rumbling of that has me wishing for a slightly different direction.
The end went on too long. It was good, but sometimes, when you do a film this way, you're almost better just saying: "Hey, you paid your money, we the actors want to introduce you to a classic.. sit here with us and watch the original." 
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07-30-2004, 11:13 PM
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#8 of 32
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I thought it was great...I'd give it an A-. The end does overstay its welcome a bit. Too bad.
But, other than that, a solid thriller with tons of style and talent throughout.
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07-31-2004, 10:28 AM
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#9 of 32
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I enjoyed it myself. I missed seeing something as memorable as the card motif, but I can deal with the lack of a brainwashing tutorial as seen in the original because audiences today are quite familiar with the concept.
I loved Meryl Steep chewing up the scenery while still being reigned into the role. Definitely one of the most fun moments of the film.
It was a shame to see the advertising campaign for the film because it really gave far, far too much away. It would not have been hard for a fresh audience to come in knowing the whole plot, including his mother's involvement. A shame.
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07-31-2004, 10:42 AM
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#10 of 32
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I enjoyed it and thought it was updated nicely to make it relevant to our times, but I think the original was a better film - more provacative, more sinister, more startling.
I like what they did with Rosie's character. Her place as "the girl" in the original was always a little unsatisfying, and I was glad to see they made her more relevant to the story.
Things I wanted to see: More on the conspiracy. Spell out what the company was hoping to gain and how they were planning to go about it. Are we supposed to believe they'd hatch a plan in 1991 and wait til 2004 to implement it? The original took place just two years after the kidnapping and brainwashing -- more plausible, if you ask me.
I could be wrong here, but the plan to assassinate the president on election night to have the VP designate become president seemed flawed. Is the VP-designate the next in line for the presidency BEFORE the President-designate is sworn in? I could be mistaken about the legality, but it seems like there would be other legalities to consider.
Having seen the original recently, much of the suspense was lost. In the new film, when Raymond kills Jordan and then his daughter, there's no gasp! like I experienced the first time. Also, the brainwashing sequence in the first film is much creepier and sinister.
Still, high marks all around for Denzel, Meryl, Liev and the other cast members. The new film is a good and smart a summer movie as we have seen in many summers.
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07-31-2004, 12:34 PM
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#11 of 32
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I could be wrong here, but the plan | | |