Different Cuts of Kubrick's 'The Shining'. Clarification needed!

Paul_D · 06-11-2004, 08:01 AM

I know Kubrick is notorious for cutting and re-cutting his films even after release, but the different versions of The Shining really confuse me:

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IMDB lists a US cut (145 minutes), European cut (114 minutes), and a fully uncut, supposedly extra gory Japanese cut (154 minutes), along with numerous TV cuts and different versions of the main three. I've seen the Euro version on TV here and have the US cut on DVD.

My preference is definitely for the US version. The deliberate mood and pace of the film is given room to really find itself and doesn't feel overly long at almost 2 and 1/2 hours. The UK version definitely feels too brief.

Does anyone have any opinions or preferences between the versions?

Has anyone seen the long Japanese cut? Does it even exist?

Did anyone see the film in the first 3 days of release before the ending was significantly reduced? (details below)

Director Stanley Kubrick edited the ending on the third day after release, removing about 10 minutes at the end: starting after the closeup of 'frozen Jack in daylight' it goes to a pullback shot with part of a state troopers car and the legs of troopers walking around in the foreground with jack in the background, then cuts to the hotel manager (Barry Nelson) Stuart Ullman walking down a hospital hallway to the nurse's station to inquire about Danny and Wendy, he's told they're both doing well and proceeds to Wendy's (Shelley Duvall) room, where after some gentle conversation he tells Wendy that searchers have been unable to locate any evidence of the apparitions she saw. Then it cuts to the camera silently roaming the halls of the Overlook hotel for about a minute until it comes up to the wall with the photographs, where it [back to the ending as it is now known] finally closes in on the photo of Jack in the 1921 pic.

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Lou Sytsma · 06-11-2004, 08:39 AM

Hmm I guess I have only seen the UK cut cause I have never seen the footage described in that passage.

Jordan_E · 06-11-2004, 10:24 AM

I saw The Shining the first day it was released here in the US and it didn't have that footage. Must have been only for the New York/LA release.

Ken Koc · 06-11-2004, 10:25 AM

I saw the Original Cut on opening day at the Village in Westwood.
For me the film played better after the last scene was edited.

MatthewLouwrens · 06-11-2004, 06:17 PM

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Does anyone have any opinions or preferences between the versions?

I have both the UK cut - which is the standard cut for Australia and NZ - and the US cut.

Definitely prefer the US cut - it just makes more sense. I don't think we learn about Jack's alchoholism in the UK cut, we definitely don't learn about his previous abuse of Danny - all plot elements that are essential to the film.

I wish I knew what Kubrick reasoning was for giving different cuts to different countries. It's not as if it was material that needed to be censored - the only 'scary' scene was with the skeletons in the big hall.

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Brian W. · 06-11-2004, 08:13 PM

So is the UK cut available on DVD?

Ernest Rister · 06-11-2004, 08:49 PM

"I wish I knew what Kubrick reasoning was for giving different cuts to different countries."

James Cameron spoke of this in his liner notes for his "Abyss: Special Edition" laserdisc. Different countries have different cultural standards, and so "the original cut" in one society will not be "the original cut" seen in another. One need look no farther than the two different versions of Eyes Wide Shut to see this phenomenon in action.

As for the extended ending to the Shining (if it is indeed real), it sounds like it is unnecessry and adds nothing to the story we didn't already know. In fact, it sort of resembles the silly speech at the end of Psycho. Horror films need to hit a climax and get out, not go on for another several minutes with nothing scary happening. It would be fun to see this ending on a DVD someday, however.

WillG · 06-11-2004, 09:22 PM

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It would be fun to see this ending on a DVD someday, however.

Well, as far as Kubrick's reputation goes, the footage is probably long destroyed.

MatthewLouwrens · 06-13-2004, 12:18 AM

Unsurprisingly, the UK cut is available in r2 and r4. I don't know of any NTSC release - could anyone else point to one?

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James Cameron spoke of this in his liner notes for his "Abyss: Special Edition" laserdisc. Different countries have different cultural standards, and so "the original cut" in one society will not be "the original cut" seen in another. One need look no farther than the two different versions of Eyes Wide Shut to see this phenomenon in action.

Well, Eyes Wide Shut was a different case -those were censorship changes. In the case of Shining, they were not scenes that needed censoring as far as I can see. Some of them made the film tighter, but some of them cut out important plot points, as I said.

Anyway, from the IMDb page on alternate versions of The Shining:

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The full-length version runs approx. 145 minutes and is the U.S. theatrical version, available in the USA on VHS, DVD and laserdisc. The UK and Australian video version, however, runs just under two hours (114), omitting about half an hour of footage. British television network ITV screened the full US version of The Shining during the late eighties. The following is a list of all the scenes or parts of scenes not present in the UK version of The Shining.
* The last line of dialogue (spoken by Wendy) in the kitchen scene, the subsequent dissolve, Bill Watson's arrival to the interview (and all his dialogue), Jack recounting his previous jobs and the reason for shutting the Overlook in winter.
* After Danny's vision in the bathroom, the entire Doctor scene is removed (making Anne Jackson's name in the opening credits a mystery), where Danny discusses "Tony" and we discover Jack dislocated Danny's shoulder in a moment of drunken rage, and joined the wagon afterwards.
* The scenes where Mr. Ullman shows Jack and Wendy around the Colorado Lounge, when they walk outside the maze and when Dick Halloran shows Wendy and Danny round the kitchens have been shortened, but not removed completely.
* The scene where Jack, Wendy and the hotel managers first enter the Gold Room and are introduced to Dick Halloran.
* The first shot of Wendy wheeling the breakfast trolley.
* The second half of Wendy and Jack's breakfast conversation where Jack says how he feels he's been to the Overlook before.
* A shot from behind of Jack throwing the ball against the wall, the subsequent dissolve and the line "Loser has to keep America clean, how's that?" (8 seconds in all!)
Wendy seeing the news and weather report on television in the kitchen while preparing food.
* The title card "Thursday" and part of Wendy and Danny's snowfight.
* Wendy and Danny watching television in the Colorado Lounge.
* The scene where Wendy goes over her plan to leave the Overlook verbally in their room and Danny gets possessed (?) by "Tony", sitting bolt upright in bed.
* Halloran's third attempt at trying to contact them via the telephone and County Office.
* The 8am title card.
* Halloran's question to the stewardess on the plane.
* A long shot from behind of Jack at the typewriter.
Halloran's plane touching down and phoning his friend Larry to arrange the rental of a Sno-cat.
* The scene where Danny watches Roadrunner (not actually on screen) and Wendy goes to find Jack, taking a baseball bat, just before she goes to find his manuscript.
* Wendy seeing skeletons in the Gold Room.

You see, what kind of reasoning could be behind Kubrick deciding that the UK should not be allowed to see the 8am title card, but the US needed to see it. It's a mystery, and I wish I knew what Kubrick was thinking.

Chad R · 06-13-2004, 01:59 PM

Maybe the UK distributor/distribution arm requested a shorter version to have more showtimes. Kubrick was a maverick, but he was contractually bound on several occasions, Eyes Wide Shut's R rating being an example of one.