a) you might want to put spoiler blocks on your latest missive
b)
Spoiler:
"It's most certainly a joke on Hermione; mainly a satire on how people take up causes even when the benefactors of that "help" neither asked for it nor wanted it. While not my favorite subplot of that particular book, the meaning and humor were quite apparent."
Herminone is completely right. The existence of slavery in the wizarding world is a moral abomination. It would be a moral abmonination in any society. It is a slavery beyond the body -- slavery of the mind. The abuse of House-Elves leads to a devastating tragedy in HP 5...but slavery is supposed to be a joke in the HP universe? Hermione is supposed to be made fun of for her advocacy? Yeah, she's over the top and too excited - she's 14 years old. THAT is the joke, not her CAUSE. The humour is from her typically fastidious nature and from her boundless work ethic. Too bad more people didn't listen to her. A certain someone would might still be breathing in HP 6.
What the slavery of house elves has to do with a brief, tasteless bit of humour in Azkaban is a little beyond me.
a) you might want to put spoiler blocks on your latest missive
b)
Spoiler:
"It's most certainly a joke on Hermione; mainly a satire on how people take up causes even when the benefactors of that "help" neither asked for it nor wanted it. While not my favorite subplot of that particular book, the meaning and humor were quite apparent."
Herminone is completely right. The existence of slavery in the wizarding world is a moral abomination. It would be a moral abmonination in any society. It is a slavery beyond the body -- slavery of the mind. The abuse of House-Elves leads to a devastating tragedy in HP 5...but slavery is supposed to be a joke in the HP universe? Hermione is supposed to be made fun of for her advocacy? Yeah, she's over the top and too excited - she's 14 years old. THAT is the joke, not her CAUSE. The humour is from her typically fastidious nature and from her boundless work ethic. Too bad more people didn't listen to her. A certain someone would might still be breathing in HP 6.
What the slavery of house elves has to do with a brief, tasteless bit of humour in Azkaban is a little beyond me.
What the slavery of house elves has to do with a brief, tasteless bit of humour in Azkaban is a little beyond me.
Quite little, but in that case I was responding to your post, not the initial conversation starter. The discussion has diverged, as these things tend to, perfectly appropriate, I think for a discussion forum?
As for spoilers, let's see if I can effectively utilize the tags...
Spoiler:
Quote:
Herminone is completely right. The existence of slavery in the wizarding world is a moral abomination. It would be a moral abmonination in any society. It is a slavery beyond the body -- slavery of the mind. The abuse of House-Elves leads to a devastating tragedy in HP 5...but slavery is supposed to be a joke in the HP universe?
Not so. The topic at hand, slavery, doesn't have to be humorous for Hermione's antics to be humorous. I think Winky's role in the tragic ending of Book 4 (and Black's elf's betrayal in Book 5) shows that Rowling doesn't consider the topic to be a joke.
That doesn't mean that Hermione's actions with S.P.E.W. (the acronym alone should be a hint at the humor) can't be humorous. Like so many causes for "the little people of the world" she doesn't take the house elve's views and dignity into account in her crusade. Not all of the world's problems can or should be tackled in the manner of S.P.E.W. Harry's small kindnesses and genuine friendship with Dobby are much more appropriate and effective in breaking that unspoken between social classes.
In other words, such issues can't be dealt with from moral absolutes. Much like the humorous whimsy of nature's cruel way in a world where trees are as active as the mammels.
What the slavery of house elves has to do with a brief, tasteless bit of humour in Azkaban is a little beyond me.
Quite little, but in that case I was responding to your post, not the initial conversation starter. The discussion has diverged, as these things tend to, perfectly appropriate, I think for a discussion forum?
As for spoilers, let's see if I can effectively utilize the tags...
Spoiler:
Quote:
Herminone is completely right. The existence of slavery in the wizarding world is a moral abomination. It would be a moral abmonination in any society. It is a slavery beyond the body -- slavery of the mind. The abuse of House-Elves leads to a devastating tragedy in HP 5...but slavery is supposed to be a joke in the HP universe?
Not so. The topic at hand, slavery, doesn't have to be humorous for Hermione's antics to be humorous. I think Winky's role in the tragic ending of Book 4 (and Black's elf's betrayal in Book 5) shows that Rowling doesn't consider the topic to be a joke.
That doesn't mean that Hermione's actions with S.P.E.W. (the acronym alone should be a hint at the humor) can't be humorous. Like so many causes for "the little people of the world" she doesn't take the house elve's views and dignity into account in her crusade. Not all of the world's problems can or should be tackled in the manner of S.P.E.W. Harry's small kindnesses and genuine friendship with Dobby are much more appropriate and effective in breaking that unspoken between social classes.
In other words, such issues can't be dealt with from moral absolutes. Much like the humorous whimsy of nature's cruel way in a world where trees are as active as the mammels.
What does slavery of the house elves have to do with the on-screen dismemberment of an animal?
"Quite little, but in that case I was responding to your post, not the initial conversation starter. The discussion has diverged, as these things tend to, perfectly appropriate, I think for a discussion forum?"
For an argument forum, maybe. For dogs chasing their own tails, maybe. For a fan site or a religious site or a political site, maybe. Those things have nothing to do with discussion. Discussion is an exchange of ideas.
Spoiler:
"The topic at hand, slavery, doesn't have to be humorous for Hermione's antics to be humorous. I think Winky's role in the tragic ending of Book 4 (and Black's elf's betrayal in Book 5) shows that Rowling doesn't consider the topic to be a joke."
Exactly. What this has to do with a Shrek-esque joke where a bird dies violently on screen...
Spoiler:
That doesn't mean that Hermione's actions with S.P.E.W. (the acronym alone should be a hint at the humor) can't be humorous.
And it is Hermione's actions that are humourous because they come from Hermione's character. We are in agreement - We are laughing at Herminone, not at her cause.
"In other words, such issues can't be dealt with from moral absolutes."
Oh, I think condemnation of slavery is a moral absolute. That's why there is nothing funny about Herminone's cause, while Hermione's over-active workaholic nature is as endearing as always.
"Much like the humorous whimsy of nature's cruel way in a world where trees are as active as the mammels."
"No moral absolutes" is the kind of back-of-the-pants junk I'd whip out when dealing with college professors, and I think it is a serious leap to compare Hermione's youthful exuberant righteousness to the amorality of nature -- as represented by a tree ripping a bird to pieces. I fail to see the connection, which is why I disagreed with the person who tried to compare the two in the first place.
So, here we are, back at square one. Are we getting anywhere? No. So once again...why are we having such a silly discussion where it has come to relating slavery in the Harry Potter universe with a mean-spirited joke in HP3?
What does slavery of the house elves have to do with the on-screen dismemberment of an animal?
"Quite little, but in that case I was responding to your post, not the initial conversation starter. The discussion has diverged, as these things tend to, perfectly appropriate, I think for a discussion forum?"
For an argument forum, maybe. For dogs chasing their own tails, maybe. For a fan site or a religious site or a political site, maybe. Those things have nothing to do with discussion. Discussion is an exchange of ideas.
Spoiler:
"The topic at hand, slavery, doesn't have to be humorous for Hermione's antics to be humorous. I think Winky's role in the tragic ending of Book 4 (and Black's elf's betrayal in Book 5) shows that Rowling doesn't consider the topic to be a joke."
Exactly. What this has to do with a Shrek-esque joke where a bird dies violently on screen...
Spoiler:
That doesn't mean that Hermione's actions with S.P.E.W. (the acronym alone should be a hint at the humor) can't be humorous.
And it is Hermione's actions that are humourous because they come from Hermione's character. We are in agreement - We are laughing at Herminone, not at her cause.
"In other words, such issues can't be dealt with from moral absolutes."
Oh, I think condemnation of slavery is a moral absolute. That's why there is nothing funny about Herminone's cause, while Hermione's over-active workaholic nature is as endearing as always.
"Much like the humorous whimsy of nature's cruel way in a world where trees are as active as the mammels."
"No moral absolutes" is the kind of back-of-the-pants junk I'd whip out when dealing with college professors, and I think it is a serious leap to compare Hermione's youthful exuberant righteousness to the amorality of nature -- as represented by a tree ripping a bird to pieces. I fail to see the connection, which is why I disagreed with the person who tried to compare the two in the first place.
So, here we are, back at square one. Are we getting anywhere? No. So once again...why are we having such a silly discussion where it has come to relating slavery in the Harry Potter universe with a mean-spirited joke in HP3?
So once again...why are we having such a silly discussion where it has come to relating slavery in the Harry Potter universe with a mean-spirited joke in HP3?
Not to butt in, but it seems that you're the one who pushed the discussion. Most of us didn't see a mean-spirited joke.
So once again...why are we having such a silly discussion where it has come to relating slavery in the Harry Potter universe with a mean-spirited joke in HP3?
Not to butt in, but it seems that you're the one who pushed the discussion. Most of us didn't see a mean-spirited joke.
I made a simple observation from my point of view, and look -- two pages of arguing (and in some cases, personal insults) over something as simple as my statement that the on-screen death of a bird in HP3 was pointless and mean-spirited. God help us all if I posted some truly substantial criticisms of HP3. I think some of you would spontaneously combust.
I made a simple observation from my point of view, and look -- two pages of arguing (and in some cases, personal insults) over something as simple as my statement that the on-screen death of a bird in HP3 was pointless and mean-spirited. God help us all if I posted some truly substantial criticisms of HP3. I think some of you would spontaneously combust.
