[DaveF]

Quote:

They actually dug into the mechanics of this a fair amount. Sammael is an egg layer, but the eggs don't hatch until one of them dies.

Ah. I saw the two whisps appear when a Sammy died, but I never caught the connection between those and the eggs hatching.

Quote:

Quote:

if there's a hell and a devil, then there's presumably a heaven. right? and it's a theological cornerstone for christianity that the world is the devil's playground, and that god doesn't really intervene directly all that much - it's up to us to fight the good fight.

Quote:

Quote:

this isn't like all the other stories you've seen. really.

That summarizes why the malleability of HB confused me. I'm coming at this with certain implicit assumptions about the spiritual "rules". Apparently my assumptions are correct. Except when they're not. This story is just like I'm used to. Except it's like nothing I've seen before. Pardon me some small confusion

I don't think the movie established the rules of its spiritual universe as strongly as I would have liked. So after the movie I'm left wondering why a demon can grow up to be a pretty swell guy.

I'm also still curious what the spiritual forces of good are and how they come to play.

Quote:

if the son of satan can come to earth and end up fighting evil for a living

Is HB literally the "son of satan" -- the progeny of evil incarnate -- or is this another phrasing for "demon"? Did I miss this connection during the movie?

As for HB talking to the dead. I found it initially surprising and jarring. This was the first time I'd seen HB or anyone else from the BRPD do anything actually spiritually supernatural. Before that, it felt more materialistic -- amazing but fitting within a non-spiritual universe, such as with X-Men. A talking dead-guy was beyond what I'd seen the good guys do so far, and it threw me a bit.

Despite my quibbles, the movie was a great deal of fun, and I'm looking forward to the sequel!

[Chuck Mayer]

He's the son of a nasty piece of work, although the demon isn't named. I do heartily recommend the Graphic Novels to anyone even remotely interested. They are not typical comics, so there's no need to be a comic fan. John's effusive praise is eminently deserved by the books...trust me.

Ron is just a cool guy. I enjoyed the interview, and I'll be cautiously optimistic until it's offical There is still SO MUCH cool stuff they can cover, although frankly I'd like GdT to write his own (new) story and film it. They can work in bits and pieces from other stories (I recommend Heads, and a flashback to young [not baby] Hellboy) if they want.

Good to hear about the reel problem. I didn't mind it, but that'll smooth it over for a lot of folks...assuming they ever see it.

Take care,
Chuck

[Alex Spindler]

It still doesn't explain what happened to Hellboy. How'd he get in the chains?

As Liz is burning all of the Sammael, there is a brief shot of Hellboy uncovered and he appears dazed or unconscious. Then, in the missing footage, Ilsa says something to the effect, "They are all here. Look, one of them (Myers) is waking up". This I took to mean that everyone was unconscious, either due to a side effect of their power (Liz), extreme heat, lack of oxygen (Myers), or from a severe beating (HB).

[john doran]

Quote:

Is HB literally the "son of satan" -- the progeny of evil incarnate -- or is this another phrasing for "demon"? Did I miss this connection during the movie?

well, although it is not a topic broached by the film (and it wasn't one explored for a while by the comic, either), in the short story "the chained coffin", hellboy returns to bromwich, england, the place of his earthly origin. there he has a vision of an exchange that occurred long ago between a priest, a nun, their recently deceased mother, and a huge demon who not only comes to claim the mother as his own, but also to tell her that she is pregnant with his favorite son, an observation he makes as he turns to look straight at hellboy.

although, as chuck rightfully notes, the demon is never explicitly named, it seems pretty clear (to me, at least) that the demon is satan.

but, as i pointed out in another post, the king of the little people (i think that's who he is) says of hellboy in "the corpse", that he is "heaven, hell, and human, come together as one"....

make of that what you will...

Quote:

(I recommend Heads,

isn't that an awesome story? along with "box full of evil", it's one of my two or three absolute favorites.

and again, as chuck notes, the hellboy trade paperbacks are eminently worth a read. they're astonishngly original, beautiful, and fun.

[Kelly W]

I've read through the previous posts, and I didn't see this addressed (though I could have missed it):

Was it ever explained what happened to the Jeffrey Tambor character? The last thing I remember is "Hurry up-- it's kinda spooky in here." (Or whatever he said.)

This took place right before the Liz-kills-all-the-beasts-with-fire bit. Maybe in the "missing footage" concerning the capture of HB, there was another scene where the baddies swing by and kill him too. (?)

I'm looking forward to the "director's cut". I'm hoping the extra 20 minutes will explain a lot.

-Kelly

[Kelly W]

Oh, and I saw the extra 45 seconds that people seem to have missed and I STILL thought there was a scene missing. (As in deleted by the filmmakers, not omitted by the projectionist.)

The only thing we see involves John waking up. There is nothing shown of Liz or HB. I mean, I guess we have to assume they were captured while unconscious, but it still wasn't clear. (And HB's a big guy-- it couldn't have been easy! )

-Kelly

[GARY C]

Quote:

Was it ever explained what happened to the Jeffrey Tambor character?

Always stay for the credits.

There is a scene with him during the credits.

Spoiler:

IIRC he is still in the catacombs and calls for Hellboy, then hears a large growl or noise

[Vince Maskeeper]

Was it ever explained what happened to the Jeffrey Tambor character? The last thing I remember is "Hurry up-- it's kinda spooky in here." (Or whatever he said.)

Yep- they "tie up" that end after the credits. He's still down in the tunnels, going "Guys? Hello?"

I figure this was tacked on after they cut stuff out of the transition.

Ilsa says something to the effect, "They are all here. Look, one of them (Myers) is waking up".

Do you remember if she was on camera when she says this? It seems to me, given that Meyers looks even more beaten when they get to the lair scene, that there really is a chunk of movie missing, cut by the director before release... I'm wondering if the Ilsa line was looped to try to smooth the transition.

[Nick Totoro]

Thanks Timothy, I do remember this part now. I guess when it happened, I expected him to get up in a few minutes and continue fighting, because the spikes caused him no harm at the beginning. So I thought it was unresolved. I still think their fight should have been better.

The spikes probably wouldn't have caused him a whole lot of harm at all until HB threw that giant cog-like thing on top of him...

Nick

[Alex Spindler]

Do you remember if she was on camera when she says this? It seems to me, given that Meyers looks even more beaten when they get to the lair scene, that there really is a chunk of movie missing, cut by the director before release... I'm wondering if the Ilsa line was looped to try to smooth the transition.

Yes. To the best of my recollection, it plays like this:

Liz flames out and a the camera goes black. A few seconds later, red embers are flowing across the black screen. A hazy picture of John looking beat down. Cuts to a very blurry shot of Rasputin and Ilsa.
(heavily paraphrased)
"You see. It is as I foresaw"
"Yes, they are all here. Look, one of them is waking up"
(approaches John, picks up the grenade belt)
"Thank you for this"
(John blacks out)

I believe that Hellboy is knocked out by the dogpile of Sammael. When Liz burns them off of him, there is a shot of him looking quite unconscious (or at least dazed). Liz has already related that use of her powers causes her to black out, so she was gone already. As bad as John looks during the missing footage and when he wakes up, the heat and lack of oxygen did a number on him.

[Matt Stone]

That's how I remember the scene as well.