*** Official THE MATRIX REVOLUTIONS Discussion Thread - Page 3

Chris Atkins · 11-05-2003, 11:45 AM

I still think it's a good idea for your characters to have clear motivations.

Neil M · 11-05-2003, 11:47 AM

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I'm going to see the movie to be entertained, not to try and read something into the movie that's not there or to learn a valuable life lesson.

That seems to be the problem with Reloaded and it sounds like its the problem with Revolutions. Yes, people want to be entertained. But with the first Matrix, there was much more. It had philosophic and religious undertones that needed to be explored further. I think people were expecting this to be the focus of the last two movies. I love the action scenes as much as anyone else but they mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. The Matrix could have set itself apart from other science fiction movies but instead they chose the entertain people first then work on story and characters route. Reloaded got decent buzz when it came out because most people were saying that Revolutions would clear up everything. The set up was pretty nice. These movies would have been big blockbusters no matter which way they made them. People will go see Revolutions just because it's the matrix. I am going to see it later and hopefully I won't be disappointed.

Chris Atkins · 11-05-2003, 11:49 AM

I agree with Neil. RELOADED asked some interesting questions and we have been tanatlized and promised with a payoff in REVOLUTIONS. To not provide that is, I think, a failure.

Still have to see the movie to be sure though.

Marvin Richardson · 11-05-2003, 11:52 AM

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I still think it's a good idea for your characters to have clear motivations.

But the Merovingian does have clear motivations...he wants more power. Sounds like you want more complex motivations, which is a different argument entirely.

Chuck Mayer · 11-05-2003, 11:53 AM

Most of us are discussing an unseen film.

I never expected ALL the answers. We never get them in our life. Why should our heroes? I am expecting some answers.

Reloaded was the gift that kept on giving for me. Every new viewing was a new perspective. It was candy for the eyes, ears, heart, mind, and soul. But it was more than that. For Revolutions to fail me, it has to stagnate or not move forward. It could be a failure by tying EVERYTHING up. I want resolution, not a data dump.

There will be, must be, questions when the credits roll. What questions are left are the key?

I have no idea what I am babbling, because I am still suffering at work, as the first waves of viewers are hating it, praising it, or loving it.

So I'll bag ass, and let those whove seen it take over.

I do have high expectations,
Chuck

Chris Atkins · 11-05-2003, 11:55 AM

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But the Merovingian does have clear motivations...he wants more power. Sounds like you want more complex motivations, which is a different argument entirely.

Look...here is a foil for our hero...the Merovingian! He wants more power...therefore he must keep the Keymaker from Neo!

Now...audience must hate Merovingian and route for Neo!

Doesn't work for me, Marvin.

Matt Stone · 11-05-2003, 11:59 AM

Well, I'm back. I'm twisted on the film. I liked a lot of parts, and disliked a lot of other ones. I keep trying to tell myself that my problems are a result of lofty expectations, but I'll need to see this film again to decide whether I can forgive.

Some quick thoughts on stuff I liked...

The idea that the Architect and the Oracle are exact opposites, and what the Architect told us should be taken with a grain of salt. Just because he acted like he knew everything doesn't mean he actually did. This ties into the revelation that programs, much like humans, are faced with choices, love, karma, etc. That helps with the "the only way to get there is together" theory of compromise.

Neo's sacrifice. I'm still a little confused as to the Oracle saying that they'll probably see Neo again, but I liked the fact that Neo knew his destruction was the only way to get to Smith.

The Neo/Smith battle. I'm a little torn, because I think it went on too long, but I love the way they continually bang into eachother with no one winning. It shows that they truly are polar opposites of equal power.

Now, some stuff I didn't like...

To many "what about ..." questions. Merovingian, Persephone, Sereph, The Architect, The Twins!!, etc

Quickly explaining why Neo has powers outside of the Matrix. I understand that you don't want to make up an explanation that is too complicated, but "the powers of the one go back to yada yada yada" seemed to be a bit of thrown together info to me.

The war for Zion. Way too much of a bloated tech demo. Strategically nothing fancy happened until the Hammer came in and blew it's EMP, and yet they just kept showing Mifune yelling as he took down each successive Sentinel. Great looking action, just a little to much time taken to show it.

The end of the war. "The way is over! The war is over!" Just seemed a little anti-climactic. But that could just be me, this is something that may work better on another viewing.

I'm sure more thoughts will come later as the discussion picks up, but this is all that I can come up with now.

JeffLl · 11-05-2003, 12:00 PM

I think Paul summed it up well just now.

As for other comments, coming from someone who's seen it, I loved it and it's not that there was no payoff, I just think lots of people will be dissappointed with the payoff.

Also, call me crazy but

Spoiler:

Marvin Richardson · 11-05-2003, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Look...here is a foil for our hero...the Merovingian! He wants more power...therefore he must keep the Keymaker from Neo!

Now...audience must hate Merovingian and route for Neo!

Doesn't work for me, Marvin.

I'd agree with you if the Merovingian was ever set up as anything other than a secondary (almost tertiary) character. If that's all they ever said about Agent Smith I'd have more of a problem, but that would tie back into my Jedi reference...if Darth Vader was never given any motivation, I'd care, but I don't really wonder or care what Jabba or Boba Fett's or Greedo's motivations may have been other than money. It just isn't important to me from a minor character.

ErichH · 11-05-2003, 12:50 PM

Chris
Comment was not intended for you - just a general thought.
I only warmed to the first 2 films after owning the DVDs.
I think they're great work. M3 will prove to be the same.
E

Mark McLeod · 11-05-2003, 01:00 PM

My review is now up.

Mark McLeod - The Matrix Revolutions