Tommy Ceez

Score one for Kyle and Efram! sort of - Ebert on "Shaker Heights"

It looks like Ebert is giving some backhand validity to the directors from project Greenlight...
http://www.suntimes.com/output/ebert...battle29f.html

Money quote...

\"We seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what someone else did.\" - Thomas Sowell

Jason Seaver

I'll probably see it this weekend, just because I liked some of the work Rankin & Potelle did up in Portland, ME - a local theater showed their Reindeer Games and Pennyweight movies, and even though I haven't lived up there in five years, there's a "Local Guys Make Good" pleasure in seeing them get a big, national release. Of course, I haven't yet seen Project: Greenlight, either.

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Seth Paxton

Rigghhhhttt, cause that's how films are normally made.

Come on Roger, was that how Beyond the Valley of the Dolls got made?

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Patrick Larkin

I think Ebert is on to something. I watch Project Greenlight and a few things bother me.

For one, the writer. Why the hell is she on the set? And why did everyone freak out when the directors needed to change some lines? And that Chris or whatever his name is has got to be the most annoying person on earth. how can an artist do work with these people around?

A director should have almost complete control, IMO. All the great movies are made with autocratic directors. And 85 minutes in lengtht? Please.

It seems Miramax has a recipe for disaster for these Project G movies! Hire directors with no say on anything, bring a bunch of studio guys that have no artistic aesthetic and tell them to make annoying suggestions and demands. Require the filmmaker to limit the film to made-for-TV length and make the writer the one with the power.

I'm not a filmmaker and guess I'm out of touch but geez...

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Chris Harvey

At the same time, if the melodrama was as bad as suggested (and remember, takes of various scenes were shown on HBO and they *were* very melodramatic), then the whole post-production process was essentially trying to save what remnents were good.

Obviously Moore and Miramax pushed hard for the comedy bits because they felt that was the stuff that worked -- whether or not this was true or not we'll probably never know, unless someone has access to all the raw footage shot on "Greenlight".

But having seen some of the directors' stuff on their site (http://www.newbornpix.com), I'm inclined to say that they make amusing stuff that's really more at an advanced student level.

Remember, the point of the series is to give an aspiring director the ability to make a film in Hollywood. That means learning to work well with seasoned professionals and actors. Again, I'm not sure how successful Kyle and Efrem were with that.

Derek Miner

Personally, I don't think a first-time director has the right to be called an "artist." Nor should a first-time director get final decisions on everything.

In defense of PROJECT GREENLIGHT, the stated goal was never to produce "art." I think they're looking for something with the appeal (but not the scope) of TITANIC or FORREST GUMP. The feature film aspect of the franchise is definitely the weakest link, however. If you read the script versions available at the PROJECT GREENLIGHT website, you can see how the original BATTLE OF SHAKER HEIGHTS screenplay that won the contest was molded into a studio film, in good ways and bad ways.

What has to happen for anything remotely unique to break through in the next go-round is for a director to be chosen with confidence and vision, who can also deal with the rigors of a low budget. A tall order, yes, but possible. Kyle and Efram, I think, really dropped the ball in pre-production, but to their credit, they were thrown into the deep end immediately and asked to learn to swim.

Oh, and I like Chris Moore better every time I watch the show. I would welcome his input on any project I was involved in. Like all of us, he's not always right, and he's not always the nicest guy, but he has experience and a strong sense of what works and doesn't work on film.

Adam Lenhardt

Well, to be fair, films aren't usually greenlighted via contest either. Since the TV show seems to be the focus of the project, rather than the final movie, it might be interesting to see the filmmakers left to their own devices. And if it's a disaster, it's only $1 million, which is penny change among the companies involved.

Tim Raffey

Exactly.

Hell, if you win Survivor they let you spend it on coke and whores for all they care...


Derek:
Personally, I don't think anyone has the right--let alone ability--to define the term 'artist'. And while Subway's 'sandwich artists' from a few years ago might have been pushing it, creativity is a peculiar thing and the creative should be defined as such.

\"Kids today are scum. They haven\'t invented cigarettes, or bluejeans--nothing.\" - JLG

Erik Pontius

I traveled 3+ hrs to Dallas from Austin last night to catch this film. I had been a loyal viewer of the series and wanted to see how the finished film turned out as well as support the effort.
I was disappointed for much of the same reasons Ebert had.
I think no one will dispute that LeBeouf had a great performace and I didn't have a problem with the cinematography or direction. But, much like Ebert stated, there was too much of a jumble of different ideas to really see what was going on. Little bits thrown together trying to make a coherent film. But I don't fault Kyle & Efram or Erica for this.
Having watched the series, I know that Kyle and Efram had been forced to cut the film the way the studio was wanting it to be...scrape all the little funny bits together and make a comedy out of it (they had several cuts before they finally just gave up). American Pie this is not, nor was intended to be in the beginning. I believe from watching the series, that the original concept of the film was to make a family drama with some light humor in it. The studio got cold feet at the last minute after test screening scores were tallied and then tried to make it a comedy with a sprinkling of family drama/coming of age thrown in. The end result was this mish-mash film. It's the studio's money, they can do as they wish...
To add insult to injury they had to beg the studio to release the film in 10 theaters. This perhaps solidifies the theory that they were less interested in making a film as they were a series.
I'm hoping that when the DVD is released that we would see a "Directors' Cut" of the film to actually see what BOSH could have been.

EJP

\"Do I look like a cat to you? Do you see me jumpin\' around all nimbly bimbly from tree to tree?\"

Derek Miner

This is all giving me the push to actually sit down and write an analysis of the different drafts of the script. I'm dying to see the finished version to compare to the shooting draft, but I have definite opinions on the direction they took from the version that won the contest to the version that they shot. If I get this done in the next few days, look for it at Movie Poop Shoot next week...

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