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[ *** Official "TERMINATOR 3: RISE OF THE MACHINES" Discussion Thread ]

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Old 07-06-2003, 02:20 PM   #241 of 399
Chuck Mayer
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PaulP,
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What about in T2, when Arnold too just happens to ride his bike and spot John Connor just in time to save him from the T-1000 on a big-ass truck.

That's not at all how it happens. Both visit his folks. Both hunt him down at the local mall. Both give chase. It's still movie random, but not nearly as random as T3.

I swallowed the T3 bit as part of the fate theme. I didn't like it, but it was internally consistent, and therefore not a flaw.

Take care,
Chuck
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Old 07-06-2003, 03:30 PM   #242 of 399
Mikel_Cooperman
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A few things that I thought about over the night.
Why was John Conner at the Animal Hospital taking those pills?
They didnt explain why he would need those unless it was just to escape from reality.
Also, if everything is predetermined in this timeline, why is she going and assasinating the people that will live in the future, like the guy working the drive through window? Wouldnt they have been blown up at the end?
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Old 07-06-2003, 04:17 PM   #243 of 399
Ben Osborne
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Why was John Conner at the Animal Hospital taking those pills?

He was in a motorcycle accident and needed something to treat the pain. He didn't want to go to a regular hospital and risk being traced.

Quote:
Also, if everything is predetermined in this timeline, why is she going and assasinating the people that will live in the future, like the guy working the drive through window? Wouldnt they have been blown up at the end?

No, he was killed specifically because he survived Judgment Day and went on to become one of John Connor's lieutenants in the war against the machines, which the humans would eventually win.
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Old 07-06-2003, 04:17 PM   #244 of 399
Eric Franklin
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nor does it explain why the T-X chooses to grab on to Kate in the truck and throw her across the parking lot instead of just ripping her head off.


Actually this is explained somewhat. She wasn't trying to kill her at that point. She was asking her where John Connor was. Remember, the T-X knew he was there from when she tasted his blood.
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Old 07-06-2003, 04:26 PM   #245 of 399
Larry Sutliff
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I heard on local radio that James Cameron liked T3 so much that he is going to write T4! Has anyone else heard this, or should I assume that it's B.S.?


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Old 07-06-2003, 04:57 PM   #246 of 399
Eric Stuckey
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My two cents:
Very disaponted and I did NOT like the ending.
The hole story was just " Stale "For a 12 year wait thats all the better they could do?



MY DVD\'S

May the Force be with you
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Old 07-06-2003, 05:02 PM   #247 of 399
Holadem
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This doesn't explain how John Connor just happens to randomly show up at Kate's clinic on Judgement Day,

Strange logic. Perhaps it'sbecause they met there that she became his wife and second in command?

--

BTW, AFAIK, they never said everything was predetermined. They said Judgment Day was.

--
Holadem



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Old 07-06-2003, 05:06 PM   #248 of 399
Matt Stone
 
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Quote:
BTW, AFAIK, they never said everything was predetermined. They said Judgement Day was.


Exactly. There is room for variance, but major events are still destined to happen.
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Old 07-06-2003, 05:31 PM   #249 of 399
Tino
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I seriously doubt that James Cameron said anything about loving T3 and certainly he will have nothing to do with any future Terminator films.

He has said repeatedly that T2 completed his story.

But...stranger things have happened.



Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus.
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Old 07-06-2003, 06:07 PM   #250 of 399
Ken Chan
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Cameron states in the commentary track for the new T2:Extreme Edition DVD that all Model 101 Terminators look like Arnold; irrespective of the series. Presumably, there could even be Model 101 T-1000s walking around somewhere in the future.
Well, that removes any ambiguity. But that doesn't explain why he's always telling people (like John) that he's the model that looks like Arnold.

//Ken
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Old 07-06-2003, 06:34 PM   #251 of 399
Brad Porter
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Actually this is explained somewhat. She wasn't trying to kill her at that point. She was asking her where John Connor was.

Fair enough. Although I expect that there were other opportunities for a quick kill that weren't taken.

BEWARE! What follows is a few paragraphs that I've rewritten about five times because each time I think about them I realize something new about the time travel implications as displayed in the Terminator films.

Now that I think about it, the "reverse causality" explanation for the importance of the animal hospital does soothe some of my concerns about the convenience of Connor's appearance there. That location was unimportant in the absence of Terminators from the future, but it was the obvious place to send a Terminator if your goal was to protect both Kate and John.

Kate becomes a leader in the resistance because ->
She survived Judgment Day with John Connor because ->
The Terminator kept both of them alive by protecting them and sending them to the fallout shelter because ->
His mission was to protect young Kate and follow her orders because ->
Older Kate ordered him to do that and only that (or was he also explicitly ordered to protect John?).

She chose to send the Terminator to the animal hospital to preserve the outcome of her and John being saved together. She didn't even explicitly try to prevent Judgement Day, although we can all imagine ways that this particular implementation of Judgement Day could have been avoided.

So here's a question. Older Kate knows that John Connor is at the animal hospital with her younger self and will be rescued with her, yet she orders the Terminator to not follow orders from John Connor. Why?

And unlike I previously theorized, Kate can't have known about all of the events depicted in T3, but only those up to the arrival of the Terminatrix in her life. As an example, consider Jose Barrera. In the future that Kate sent the Terminator from, he is alive and acting as a lieutenant for the resistance. Early in T3, he is shot to death at the drive thru by the Terminatrix. He never makes it past Judgement Day, so the actions of the Terminatrix have created an entirely new future. In other words, the past of both Future Jose and Future Kate didn't have a Terminator or a Terminatrix in them. At the end of the film, both John and Kate are living in an unwritten future.

All Kate would have been able to do was to send the protector Terminator back to the one place that she knew it could find both her and John prior to her version of Judgement Day. So this makes the protector Terminator's arrival at the hospital a necessity, not a convenience.

This brings up a question that I don't recall the answer to: Was the protector Terminator surprised to see John Connor there? Kate should have instructed it to protect both of them.

I also have an explanation for why Future Kate didn't order the protector Terminator to stop Judgement Day. Perhaps Future Kate didn't understand why Judgement Day happened, so she didn't know how to instruct the protector Terminator to stop it. Future Kate didn't have the same revelations of her father's involvement in Skynet because her experience of Judgement Day was completely different (and unknown to the viewer). We really don't have any knowledge of the future created by the events of T2 but not effected by the events of T3 other than the invention of yet another Model T800/850 and the creation of a T-X.