The Cinematography Discussion #2

JohnRice · 06-14-2003, 04:55 PM

Here we go again. I'm finally tired of waiting and decided to get the second cinematography discussion going. It will be done a little differently this time. I'm starting the thread now, but won't start the discussion for another week or two. I'm doing this to give everyone who wants to participate a chance to see the films. We will also take a break between each film discussed and will be discussing fewer films.

The films we will be discussing this time around are...

[c]

In the Bedroom
Discussion led by John Rice

Oliver Twist
Discussion led by Agee Bassett

The Exorcist
Discussion led by PatrickL
[/c]

This should be the order that films will be discussed in, but you never know what will change with that.

I also want to thank Seth Paxton and George Kaplan for participating in the last discussion. I decided to scale back on the number of films this time since participation in the thread seemed to wane on the later films and I don't think it is fair to ask people to do all this work and not have enough participation from others.

We will be starting with discussion on In the Bedroom sometime in the next couple weeks, so anyone who wants to participate, please make an effort to see these films.

JohnRice · 06-14-2003, 05:09 PM

Oh yeah, go ahead and chat away while we wait for the actual discussion to start. Any comments on the movies we will be discussing are welcome. Once we start the actual discussions though, we will only be discussing one film at a time.

To keep the server loads reasonable, please turn off your signatures when posting in this thread. We will have a lot of images loading once the real discussion starts.

Adam_S · 06-15-2003, 03:25 AM

woohoo!

I've seen Oliver Twist, and this may be the impetus to break down and buy it. I'll definitely be grabbing In the Bedroom and The Exorcist on my next visit to the rental place. (I assume the original Exorcist, correct?)

Adam

Dome Vongvises · 06-15-2003, 12:56 PM

I noticed that you have In The Bedroom listed as one of your favorite films, John. Was it that impressive for a new film?

Anywho, I'm looking foward to all three presentations, especially Agee's on Oliver Twist. I love David Lean's work, but I've always wondered about this "smaller" works since I'm more familiar with his big three. I purchased Brief Encounter some time ago, and I thought it was really good.

Adam_S · 06-15-2003, 02:55 PM

There's an interesting thing about Lean. his 'smaller' films--ie his British films--seem to quite different from the extravagant American financed epics of his later career. I think this is because Lean began his career as an editor, and his first pictures reflect his incredible ability with editing a taut and breathtakingingly dense narrative. His adaptations of Dickens have absolutely never been matched. More than a large part of this is because of his ability with Mese-en-scene and staging shots, scenes, and sequences--in fact I believe it was Roger Ebert (in one of his great movie reviews) that said that Lean began his career as a director with an editors sensibilities, and that he ended his career with a cinematographer's sensibilities. In fact the 'transistion' film between these two era, his first American Epic Bridge on the River Kwai is perhaps the best melding of these two sensibilities--I consider it to be one of the shortest three hour films ever made (second only to the Great Escape).
Don't be misled by this though, his early films are all exquisitely photographed--icons of black and white cinematography, I just watched Brief encounter for the first time earlier today, and the photography is simply stunning. one moment that really struck me was just before their first kiss. The long shot is staged from further up the ramp leading to the platform, their shadows lead them into the frame as they turn from the subway onto the ramp, backlit, silhouettes. there's a brief inset for the dialouge and then a return to the previous shot as they embrace and kiss for the first time. A beautifully done scene that really needs to be seen to get its impact (I wish this computer had a dvd player and powerdvd, but it doesn't).

Anyway I'm looking forward to all three of these discussions, and I'll probably rent the movies from the first discussion and reread and perhaps post to the original thread in the interim.

Adam

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JohnRice · 06-15-2003, 04:10 PM

I assume the original Exorcist, correct?

I had figured that question would come up. Maybe Patrick will elaborate, but I expect anyone who already has The Version You've Never Seen will be just fine with that one, though time codes will probably be different. Everything he talks about should be in both versions, but he will be referring to the original.

I noticed that you have In The Bedroom listed as one of your favorite films, John. Was it that impressive for a new film?

If you read my comments on ymdb, you'll see I recently replaced The Man Who Wasn't There with In the Bedroom. The truth is, the first time I saw ITB, I thought, "What a great film. I don't think I ever want to see it again." It is a difficult film to watch, but I still bought it and have watched it maybe 4 more times. I started realizing how artfully it is done and it gained steam fast.

Much of what I like about it will come out in the discussion. In some ways it is similar to The Man in the Moon, the film I discussed in the first thread, because it is subtle and easily overlooked, but I think it is one of the most creatively done films I have seen in a long time. It is not nearly the "pleasant" film TMITM is, though.

I'll probably rent the movies from the first discussion and reread and perhaps post to the original thread in the interim.

Go for it! I'll point out that most Blockbusters have several used copies of In the Bedroom in stock, priced at $10. There are no sales going on right now, but there may be one coming. They have them pretty regularly. The Man in the Moon is also readily available for $10 and has been on sale for as low as $6. The Exorcist and Klute are both available for $15 or less and I think Out of Sight is as well. Of course, the most expensive ones are Vertigo and Oliver Twist. Any of them is worth a purchase.

Holadem · 06-15-2003, 08:44 PM

I watched In the Bedroom last Year and liked it a lot, but any remarkable cinematography it contained must have gone right over my head. EIther I haven't the eye for these things, or it's just somethign you have to really look for. Perhaps a bit of both. In any case, I will follow this discussion with interest, just like last one

.

--
Holadem

Walter Kittel · 06-15-2003, 08:56 PM

I started to watch In The Bedroom yesterday, but decided to hold off until closer to the start of the official discussion so that it would be fresher in my mind. Based on the opening minutes of the film, and some of titles that John holds in high esteem, I can see why John would like this film's cinematography. ( BTW, that's not directed at you Holadem. )

There is one shot early in the film that I felt communicated a lot about the family, but perhaps I should wait until the discussion. If you must know what I'm talking about:

Spoiler:

- Walter.

JohnRice · 06-15-2003, 10:56 PM

I watched In the Bedroom last Year and liked it a lot, but any remarkable cinematography it contained must have gone right over my head.

I'm in a real mood for subtlety lately, which is a big reason I picked In the Bedroom. I want to discuss cinematography almost completely from the perspective of how it enhances the story. So many films who's cinematography is highly regarded are very obvious. They usually jump out at you. In the Bedroom is quite the opposite. It is so unassuming, most of the time it isn't even noticed. I think most people will be absolutely amazed what was done with it, though. I see new things every time I watch it.

Walter, I hadn't actually noticed what you are talking about. I'll probably just leave that theme for you to add during the discussion, since you brought it up first. You are right also, that it might not be too surprising I like this film so much. In fact, it grabbed my eye from the very first frame. The first minute shows you how the story will be told.....but that needs to be saved for later.

I also plan on doing something different for my discussion. I will be including mp3 audio excerpts from some scenes to help illustrate my points. Most folks should already be equipped to play these files live through their browsers using Quicktime or some other application. Hopefully we won't run into problems with people being able to hear the files.

Adam_S · 06-16-2003, 12:23 AM

Quote:

I'm in a real mood for subtlety lately, which is a big reason I picked In the Bedroom. I want to discuss cinematography almost completely from the perspective of how it enhances the story. So many films who's cinematography is highly regarded are very obvious. They usually jump out at you. In the Bedroom is quite the opposite. It is so unassuming, most of the time it isn't even noticed. I think most people will be absolutely amazed what was done with it, though. I see new things every time I watch it.

You know I came right off reading the original thread last year and one of the first movies I watched was the new Vault Disney release of Pollyanna. That movie, surprisingly, illustrates what you're talking about with the cinematography enhancing the story. There were several moments I noticed in the film: When the terrific Karl Malden is giving his sermon, there are some very nice low angle shots that compose the cieling rafters and his head in a very amusing way, and when Pollyanna first walks into the mansion, the camera keeps its distance and uses a wider lens to emphasize how enormous the house is and how small Pollyanna is. Probably not near the level of cinematography in Man in the Moon, or In the Bedroom, but it was fascinating to see how every element was focused on the story (I now think that this is Disney's best live action).

I have Out of Sight and Man in the Moon and have been meaning to pick up Oliver Twist and Vertigo for ages now. I still need to see Klute, In the Bedroom, and the Exorcist.

Adam