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[ *** Official 2002 Academy Awards Discussion Thread ]

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Old 03-13-2003, 11:43 AM   #241 of 679
Seth Paxton
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Brian, maybe I misunderstood. I thought that for the first awards that films from both 27 and 28 were under consideration, meaning anytime from 27 or 28.


Yeah, I know that Oscar.com only lists Wings, but it's tough to know what to make of that. I mean Oscar.com is not a publication from 1933 or something. It's always possible to rewrite history for simplification or otherwise, especially in the dot com era. Hey, I've got spring break coming up, maybe I'll dig into this and see if I can find some explanation or sentiment closer to that time frame, ie. did people in 1935 consider Sunrise a dual winner or did they see it as some sub-catagory winner.


I'll throw something else in as it's defense however. Sunrise was not a nomination for Best Production. And neither was Wings nominated in Artistic Production catagory. In fact none of the nominees are shared between the two. Contrast this with something like Best Foreign Film and Best Pix in which something like CTHDragon was nominated for both.

It's kind of hard to defend the Artistic catagory as a subset of the Best Production if the two were exclusive of each other (you couldn't be nominated in both I mean). I would say that if there was a rule/guideline that viewed the 2 catagories as exclusive then the 2 awards should be seen as dual Best Pix. However, if it was possible that this was more like the small indy catagory and the majors catagory, in which the majors were kept out of the indy catagory but the indy films COULD be nom'd against the majors but simply weren't considered good enough (think again of the Foreign Film/Best Pix situation), then I would concede that Sunrise was only the winner of some sub-catagory.


Sorry to be so pedantic about the whole thing, but we've got another week+ to go and what the hell, it's just a fun debate. It's certainly more interesting than the "The Oscars screwed up again by giving it to Chicago" debate that will soon flood either this thread or the post-Oscar discussion thread.
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Old 03-13-2003, 01:58 PM   #242 of 679
Craig S
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OK, Brian, Seth, break it up...

David Poland's weekly Oscar column is up, and ole Dave seems pretty down on the whole Oscar thing, thanks mainly to the "dirty tricks" campaigning by one studio in particular (hint, begins with 'M', ends with 'x'). Interesting reading.

I have to admit, my Oscar interest level has flagged somewhat this year. The Chicago juggernaut has drained all the fun out of it, IMO. I'm hoping against hope for some big upsets, but that appears very unlikely. Oh well, at least we'll have Steve Martin...
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Old 03-13-2003, 02:44 PM   #243 of 679
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I still think a number of races are suspenseful this year. True, Best Picture is already won, but all the other major catogories are still holding my interest. I still wouldn't want to bet on Best Actor - I really can't decide whether it will be Nicholson or Day-Lewis - and I believe that Best Actress is still a question mark. (I'm not convinced of a "Chicago" sweep, I guess) I'm eager to find out if "Talk to Her" takes Screenplay over "Greek Wedding" also.

Poland's column rubbed me the wrong way; I thought it had already been established that Miramax was not behind opening the grand jury testimony in the Polanski case but the column makes a vague accusation anyway, along with the usual, tedious complaints about big bad Harvey dominating the Oscars. The endless complaining about Miramax is what has really threatened to make this year's Oscar season a snooze for me.
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Old 03-13-2003, 03:44 PM   #244 of 679
Seth Paxton
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Quote:
thanks mainly to the "dirty tricks" campaigning by one studio in particular

Yeah, remember how Miramax pulled that dirty trick against Miramax, or when Miramax undermined Miramax's Oscar chances.

Kinda hard to play dirty when you are the only one in the sandbox. Say what you will about Miramax, but here is the list of films they brought to the screen for 2002:

Chicago (outstanding musical)

Confessions of a Dangerous Mind (inventive, artistic film written by Kaufman)

Frida (Hayek was finally able to find someone help her bring the story of this female artist to the screen, complete with a female director)

Full Frontal (extremely risky and arty filmmaking effort by Soderbergh when most companies would want Ocean's 11 part 2)

Gangs of New York (Scorsese is finally able to bring his biggest dream to life)

Heaven (Tykwer's creative effort to carry on Kieslowski's dream, another artistically interesting film)

The Hours (a film that champions the female perspective and gave numerous great roles to actresses, something many people have been asking to get for years)

Stolen Summer (we all know about this experiment in letting America see the filmmaking process, as well as giving a chance to one lucky young filmmaker)

Also this year was the new version of The Importance of Being Earnest and Naqoyqatsi, neither of which would be considered low brow mainstream crap like Scooby-Doo or Bad Company.


Normally I would jump on the wagon to complain about how Miramax is just an Oscar machine that tries to sell themselves into the awards, but you know what, if you are willing to go out and produce that list of films then I say thank god for you. 5 films in my top 15, 6 in my top 25, with Full Frontal being the one outsider that I liked but do not totally love, at least not yet (interesting film worth rewatching to me).


GONY, Hours, and Chicago didn't have to buy their way in with me, nor with most critics either. In fact Frida and Confessions are probably being OVERLOOKED more than they should have been rather than being overvalued films like Chocolat was (in popular critical opinion).

Right now after Two Towers I have Chicago at #2 and Confessions at #3. So I have little problem with this year's Oscars or Miramax.



I'm with you Patrick. While I stand on the belief that Chicago has already won (based on my silly Best Pix winner formula), I think most of the other categories are wide open, and that even if Chicago gets many of those wins they won't have been blow outs. Few are certain at this point.

I think the other lock is TTT for VizFX, and Frida for Best Makeup. I consider Lewis the front runner for the Oscar, both again and still.

Hey, you are going to see HIGH DEFINITION clips of some of the best films from this year. That in itself is worth a viewing to me.


Craig, I know you are a man of reason so I'm certain you realize this, but for anyone else that doesn't - no matter what film "takes the lead" in the Best Pix race, a decent sized group is going to be against it or bored by the sheer eventuality of it, etc. It's the nature of the beast that is competition. People have the same things to say about sports. "oh, baseball is lame, we all know the Yanks will win it all again since they buy championships"

Luckily for the D'Backs (and Kim) as well as the Angels they didn't buy into that thinking (yes, I know the D'Backs spend money too, just not as much as the Yanks).

The point is that competition itself bores people when the favorites lead and/or win, but it also upsets people when the undeserving underdog wins. Or if they loved the underdog people will still turn on it in time.

There will come a time when Chicago won't be on every paper and magazine and we will be able to go back to enjoying it in peace, just like American Beauty or Forrest Gump. I agree that the hype at it's peak gets old really fast. I just focus on the fact that it won't last and it keeps it from bothering me so much.
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Old 03-13-2003, 05:53 PM   #245 of 679
Craig S
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Don't get me wrong - I have no problem with Chicago winning. I'm just tired of hearing about it!

In fact, all five BP nominees are in my Top Ten - or will be when I finally post my long-overdue update (and HTF Award noms).

As far as Miramax - no argument about the overall quality of films, or even their promotion of same. Indeed, Seth, Poland has in recent weeks made the same observations about Miramax's slate that you just have. But his piece today boiled down to this statement:
Quote:
... the complaints about Miramax always seem to be about actions taken against other contenders, more so than going overboard in promoting their own product.
Is there anything to this? Hell, I dunno. Poland is really good at avoiding specifics. For example, his Hot Button column from last Friday was a masterpiece of obfuscation that seems to be alluding to something, but what... who knows??

At any rate, I said that it was interesting reading, and I stand by that.

Good point, Patrick, on some of the down races. I know I'll be rooting for TTT to get the Art Direction win (it would be a minor upset, I think, but is very possible), and as a longtime Philip Glass fan you know what I'll be rooting for in the Best Score category.
Quote:
Hey, you are going to see HIGH DEFINITION clips ...
Yeah, I wish... I attend a long-standing Oscar party with some of the folks I work with in theater, and unfortunately there's only a 20" screen at the host's house. But of course there will be great conversation about Oscar & movies, and that more than makes up for it!!
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Craig, I know you are a man of reason ...
Hey Seth, can I put that in my sig??


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Old 03-13-2003, 09:28 PM   #246 of 679
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I agree that while Chicago has BP wrapped up, ALL the acting categories are up in the air, with the possible exception of Supporting Actress. I think Zeta-Jones is the favorite here.

I still think it's very possible Nicholson and Day-Lewis could split the vote and let Brody sneak in. (BTW, after finally seeing Schmidt last night I am stunned that it didn't get a BP nom. I absolutely loved it--it's probably my favorite film of 2002.)
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Old 03-14-2003, 08:37 PM   #247 of 679
Thi Them
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For the past week, LA Times has been printing a letter from Robert Wise that highly recommends Scorsese for the best director award. Miramax enlisted Wise to write the letter, which has outraged many Academy members, with some demanding their mailed ballots be returned so they could strike Scorsese's name.

~T
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Old 03-15-2003, 11:54 AM   #248 of 679
Seth Paxton
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Is there anything to this? Hell, I dunno.

That's a more probable point. I said as much during last year's Oscar thread. My point at the time was that I simply don't trust LA film critics/writers during Oscar season because I always wonder which are on the take or being gladhanded or have other interests at work.

I know there are an awful lot of "fishy" articles that come from high-profile critics in that region. You know, those high charged negative slams full of all sorts of agendas. We've already discussed the anti-Scorsese article, for example.

I often wonder what the point is of an ill-timed article like that if not soley to sway votes. Rallying against an action which not only has not yet occurred, but is in the process of being decided by the very people who will read your article.

IMO, writers for LA papers/magazines should lay off the anti-slants during awards season. After all, isn't it supposed to be a time of celebration of all things film from the last year? To read some of these guys it's no more than politics to them, and mud slinging politics at that. I would say that if they have real reason to believe in some sort of financial tampering, then such allegations should be brought out professionally in a researched and sourced article, or otherwise left unmentioned.

And more specifically it would seem that the focus should be on the enablers of this studio "misconduct", the other writers, gift givers, etc that allow votes to be bought or swayed. Cite the examples, give us solid reasoning at least if not outright proof.

Otherwise there is NOTHING distinguishing one of these articles from the slander they are allegedly against. For all we know New Line slipped Poland a big fat check to slam Miramax.


Now Poland does cite 2 specific accusations, though again only by speculation. The info resurfacing about Polanski's statutory rape and the Kidman/Law photos/scandal.

Well, there are 2 major flaws with either of those theories. First, Kidman is MIRAMAX'S shot at Best Actress. So, they are slandering themselves??? Is this how anti-Chicago people have become so that they see the Hours as Miramax competition? That's outright stupidity. Especially when all the while the Hours team is praising Harvey high and low too.

And then the Polanski thing. Well gee, he was forced to leave the country to avoid going to jail. He is back in the spotlight with The Pianist. I have bad news for Roman or any other criminal like this, YOU are not your work. In other words, go ahead and make whatever art you want, it will never be good enough to undo your crime. That is what the legal system is for. Go do your time and then I will be willing to put it in the past. But as long as you are a fugitive is there the least bit of surprise that your crime is permenantly attached to your name?

"Hey, I shot a man to death but I wrote a great song about it so can we just forget the whole thing now?" Sheesh.

Cripes, OJ DID go through the legal system and he still won't be able to do a film period, let alone have it come out without the public bringing the murder trial back up again.



Then Poland makes yet another unfounded claim which falls under the guise of logical debate but is really just a method for further slander..
Quote:
If Adrien Brody was considered to be a legitimate threat to Nicholson and Daniel Day Lewis, do you think we’d be reading about some awful thing he might have done as a younger man?

Look, if Poland got a phone call saying "hey, we want you to do a story on Polanski to wipe him out of the race", then Poland needs to say so explicitly. You don't say "I don't want to say who, but let's just say somebody was doing you know what with someone else". That is still just gossip, and it's no different than the campaigning he is backhandly accusing Miramax of.


If I were Poland, I would RECORD some of these conversations and then bring them to public light. If he could tie people directly to such methods, even if it was just the go-betweens working for Harvey, he could wipe them out legitimately and help put an end to the activity.

Of course he doesn't do this. And why? Because he WANTS TO KEEP THOSE SOURCES, he doesn't want to burn the bridges. Now imagine the Washington Post choosing not to burn bridges with Nixon during Watergate. That's the same thing. If these sources are not good people, if they are feeding you Miramax based slander, then WHO CARES if you report them and they stop talking to you. You just told us that their stuff is questionable or outright slander.

Or does this just mean that Poland wants to keep his slander for use on his choosing. "Keep sending me the dirt and I will decide which of it I want to use." It's still slander no matter who you are going after. Seeing Miramax as the bad guy doesn't justify the means, it just means you play dirty for a different team.



I'm not pro-Miramax, I just get sickened when I see the anti-Miramax people using the same methods but playing from a holier-than-thou angle. Let's just have hard journalism.



Thi, does that advert mean that we are to view Robert Wise as a corrupted voter who seeks only to sway votes for the highest bidder? Otherwise it doesn't matter who asked him to write the letter. If he was willing to do it without the exchange of money or favors (which would need to be reported) then why shouldn't Marty run the ad. I can see why the Times would view such a letter as a possible Oscar ad only and decide not to print it. I suppose the content would differentiate it as a good letter-to-the-editor or just campaigning.

But if Wise told Harvey or Marty that he loved and respected the effort, then why shouldn't Harvey say "Gee Robert, if you feel that way it would be great if you perhaps told other people." I mean if Wise really feels the way described in the letter and was willing to do it as a friendly gesture only, then so what.

That's quite different than "Hey, if you write this letter we will sign you to a deal next year to direct a film yourself."

That the Times passed on printing the letter is of little news unless Poland assumes that every single letter that is sent in is actually printed. Heck, what if the Times is on New Line's side or someone else's side? That would be motivation enough to not print it too.

As it stands, its an advert only with Wise's words as the copy. That is quite a legitimate method for campaigning, it's recognized as a paid advert. Much better than "reporting" it within a news article as if it were an unbiased piece of journalism. IMO, that method runs rampant in Oscar season, which is again why I say it's tough to trust any "news" out of the Hollywood/LA area during JAN/FEB.


And again the Scorsese thing becomes stupid when you consider that the toughest competition Scorsese faces is ANOTHER MIRAMAX director, Rob Marshall (who just won the DGA). It's fucking silly to picture Miramax agents double-dealing each other, outbidding themselves to win these various awards away from one another.


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Old 03-15-2003, 07:15 PM   #249 of 679
Thi Them
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More news on Wise's article: http://www.calendarlive.com/movies/o...s15mar15.story

Quote:
And again the Scorsese thing becomes stupid when you consider that the toughest competition Scorsese faces is ANOTHER MIRAMAX director, Rob Marshall (who just won the DGA). It's fucking silly to picture Miramax agents double-dealing each other, outbidding themselves to win these various awards away from one another.


Miramax is, after all, promoting Chicago more than any of their other best picture nominees. I could see this attempt to promote Scorsese over Marshall as a way to spread the wealth.

~T
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