Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club - Page 88

Thi Them · 03-07-2005, 06:00 PM

I wasn't impressed with it either, considering how highly some people think of it.

I'm sure you'll enjoy Red River. Great western, despite the ending.

~T

Lew Crippen · 03-08-2005, 08:19 AM

Brook and I had a discussion about Meet Me in St. Louis in this thread somewhere—he took me to task for my lukewarm feelings. And he makes some good points. After consideration, I can say that I feel somewhat more positive about the movie than I did initially—but it will never be my cup of tea. For example, the trolley song is one that I like just fine when sung (perhaps by Tony Bennett), but the overly staged production (and saccharine) is a waste of time and film in the movie.

Love Red River

Seth Paxton · 03-09-2005, 03:47 AM

Red River
Funny you would say that Thi, I was going to come here and say it was pretty strong till the end. I thought Searchers sort of resolved quickly. In fact as I think about it there are several Wayne films in which this serious problem is just sort of wrapped up quickly with a change of heart on his part.

But before then it was epic Western. Long story, lots of situations (all the classics), solid character acting. Still I was really interested to see how things would be resolved and it let me down with a rather cheap choice.

The Leopard
Somewhat similar. The end seemed a little rough, though I got the metaphor and mood of it. Lancaster is great as that character. The film struck me as an Italian Dr. Zhivago, not quite as good as that. And Visconti had that same dramatic Italian epic style that Leone had, but with a less action/genre spectacle story (meaning a showcase for action or a genre-formula like Western, Gangster, Spy).

I enjoyed both but didn't love either of them. I guess I liked Red River a bit more.

It's a ton of work but I've considered going through the thread and trying to pull out comments on each film and compiling them, like a 300+ chapter book/journal. Just writing that makes me exhausted though, so we'll see.

My S&S total is now 209 seen.

Not on the list but worth a mention here, I finally saw The Roaring Twenties. Talk about epics, if ever there were a gangster epic, this has to be it. I appreciate Leone's Once Upon...America and the Godfather films, but emotional interplay among the characters in this film was much stronger (characters were less cold or closed-off). And it was gritty and tight rather than languid and drama-oriented. Great script, great acting, great ending (one of my favorites of all time to be honest, great pair of tracking shots). I'd put this on over his (RW) White Heat. Actually I'd put them both on.

george kaplan · 03-09-2005, 06:22 AM

The Roaring Twenties...I appreciate...the Godfather films, but emotional interplay among the characters in this film was much stronger

You've got to be kidding. I don't think I've ever read something in this thread I disagree with more...and that's saying something. The Roaring Twenties is an OK film, but to compare it (favorably) to the Godfather, is like comparing Shallow Hal to Vertigo.

Haggai · 03-09-2005, 09:14 AM

Yeah, Seth, much respect, but you're smokin' something re: Roaring Twenties. I thought it was OK, but the Godfather? Dude. And it's no White Heat, either. Clearly, you're wrong, I'm right, end of discussion.

Actually, I really loved the stuff between Cagney and Gladys George in Roaring Twenties, it was all teriffic. But Priscilla Lane didn't do much for me, and Jeffrey Lynn was pretty boring. Bogey's OK, but this is no Duke Mantee, from his extraordinary performance in Petrified Forest. Best scene in Roaring Twenties? I thought it was the shootout in the Italian restaurant, that was magnificent.

SteveGon · 03-09-2005, 09:47 AM

I just want to say that I'm with Seth on this one: I find TRT more enjoyable than The Godfather. Sorry.

Thi Them · 03-09-2005, 12:41 PM

Quote:

It's a ton of work but I've considered going through the thread and trying to pull out comments on each film and compiling them, like a 300+ chapter book/journal. Just writing that makes me exhausted though, so we'll see

That's a great idea, Seth! I could help you compile half the thread or something. There's also JungWoo's old thread.

~T

Brook K · 03-09-2005, 01:16 PM

I've always meant to at least pull my reviews out and put them on my website, but like a millon other things, I haven't gotten around to it. (like writing something about Once Upon A Time In America, The Mother & The Whore, or In A Year With 13 Moons)

I just noticed that Netflix now carries Un Chien Andalou, it's shipping to me today. Still no luck with Les Vampires, it's been in stock when I've had movies go out at least two more times, including this week, and they keep skipping over it.

Haven't seen TRT, so I can't comment on who's crazy. But I'm a little mad that George now disagree's with someone more than me. I'm going to have to try harder.

Agree with the comments on Red River and the ending, and agree with the sentiments on The Leopard though I prefer Visconti's more formal style to Leone's.

Seth Paxton · 03-10-2005, 04:15 AM

Quote:

though I prefer Visconti's more formal style to Leone's.

But it is remarkable how similar in framing and scene tone they are. You can definitely see an "Italian" approach, or some era, movement, influence connection.

I remember when we studied Cabiria we discussed the Italian ideal of classical art, heroic, statuesque mise-en-scene (like in Cabiria when it opens on his slave standing on the beach posing like an ancient statue of one of the gods).

Not to say that either Leone or Visconti are doing that, but rather that I think there is certainly something to cutural/national tastes when it comes to filming style. Obviously subject matter, genres and even types of endings are well tied to national cultures, no reason to expect visual style to be any different.

I had a rather long continued explanation of how I think TRT is better than Godfather, White Heat, etc, but I decided that this wasn't the place for it. A brief mention is one thing, but a full-on sidetrack for a non S&S film is another.

I have to say that this was one of the few times I thought George would be with me, being a fan of the practical over the high art. TRT to me was a film that was quite adept at packaging its high art inside the entertainment.

george kaplan · 03-10-2005, 06:18 AM

I have to say that this was one of the few times I thought George would be with me, being a fan of the practical over the high art. TRT to me was a film that was quite adept at packaging its high art inside the entertainment.

Although I wasn't particularly enamored of TRT, there are many films on the S&S list that it's better than, IMO

But your examples of The Godfather and White Heat aren't two of them. Certainly neither of those films has problems working both as great entertainment and great art. On the other hands, films like...hell there'd be too many to list [The Mirror], so I'll just [Don't Look Now] say [Cries & Whispers] that there certainly [Earth] are plenty of films on [Do the Right Thing] the list that you could [The Piano] have compared negatively to TRT where you [Written on the Wind] would have had my full support. I'm sure even [Performance] without me listing any, you know [Birth of a Nation] which ones I'm talking about.