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11-23-2004, 05:18 PM
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#2461 of 3720 
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Cees Alons
Administrator
Location: Amsterdam, Holland
Join Date: Aug 1997
Local Time: 11:33 AM
Local Date: 10-07-2008
Posts: 18,180
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George,
The film "glorifies" (if you want to see it that way) someone who started in the film as a racist alright (although perhaps not from the beginning of his adult life), but who effectively conquered that at a crucial moment. And even if you do not deem that enough for him not to be "a racist" any longer, it's THAT moment that's glorified. Him making THAT choice.
Cees
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11-24-2004, 07:13 AM
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#2463 of 3720
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2000
Local Time: 04:33 AM
Local Date: 10-07-2008
Posts: 8,454
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Quote:
a film about a racist doesn't have to be a racist film. This film isn't, because it clearly doesn't share its protagonists view.
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This pretty much sums up how I feel
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Disagree, although this is where opinion comes in. Mostly I disagree with your choice of the word "clearly", since at least 3* people disagree and consider this to be a film that glorifies a racist, and hence is racist.
* - the 3 people being Roger Ebert and George Kaplan
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George,
I'd suggest you go and re-read Eberts review, since you seem to be holding it up like a flagpole in your defence.
First of all it made his great movies list - so it's pretty evident he doesn't despise it the way you do.
George
Quote:
As far as the Godfather, yes, there is a "bad" guy as a protagonist, but he is not the one-dimensional racist of Ethan, but rather a character who clearly has good and bad interwoven.
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Roger Ebert
"Ethan Edwards, fierce, alone, a defeated soldier with no role in peacetime, is one of the most compelling characters Ford and Wayne ever created (they worked together on 14 films)."
George
Quote:
the film come across (to me) as being pro-racism. For me, the answer is yes in regards to films like The Searchers, Do the Right Thing, Birth of a Nation, etc.
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Roger Ebert
"Did they know how vile Ethan's attitudes were? I would argue that they did, because Wayne was in his personal life notably free of racial prejudice, and because Ford made films with more sympathetic views of Indians. This is not the instinctive, oblivious racism of Griffith's ''Birth of a Nation.'' Countless Westerns have had racism as the unspoken premise; this one consciously focuses on it. I think it took a certain amount of courage to cast Wayne as a character whose heroism was tainted. "
George
The Searchers 
Roger Ebert
The Searchers
Doesn't seem like Ebert is the right champion for you in this cause George.
I'd suggest to anyone here who hasn't, go read Ebert's review. Its a pretty good one.
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11-24-2004, 07:42 AM
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#2464 of 3720
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Local Time: 04:33 AM
Local Date: 10-07-2008
Posts: 14,306
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I never said that Ebert agreed with me about the overall merits of the film. I said that he agreed that it makes a hero out of a racist. Ebert is the one who uses the term "glorifies". The only reason I brought up Ebert was to show that I'm not the only one who sees it's portrayal of a racist character as overly positive.
And just because a film is on Ebert's list of great movies, doesn't mean it's not a racist film. He also has Birth of a Nation on his list of great films. He realizes that it's a racist film, but he still views it as great cinema (I agree it's racist, and disagree that it's a great film - important, yes, great, no).
I may be in the minority around here in viewing this as a racist film, but that's OK. It's my opinion, and I'm not changing it just because it irritates people.
"Movies should be like amusement parks. People should go to them to have fun." - Billy Wilder
"Subtitles good. Hollywood bad." - Tarzan, Sight & Sound 2012 voter.
"My films are not slices of life, they are pieces of cake." - Alfred Hitchcock
"My great humility is just one of the many reasons that I am vastly superior to everyone else." - Ramrod Clerk
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11-24-2004, 08:12 AM
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#2465 of 3720
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Cees Alons
Administrator
Location: Amsterdam, Holland
Join Date: Aug 1997
Local Time: 11:33 AM
Local Date: 10-07-2008
Posts: 18,180
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George,
It doesn't irritate people that you have a different opinion.
But if we don't agree, we like discussing it.
Cees
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11-24-2004, 09:27 AM
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#2466 of 3720
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Member
Location: Ajijic, Jalisco, Mexíco
Join Date: May 2002
Local Time: 04:33 AM
Local Date: 10-07-2008
Posts: 11,410
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I just want to know the proper grammatical structure: should I write “George is saying that The Searchers is a racist film” or “George are saying that The Searchers is a racist film”? 
¡Time is not my master!
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11-24-2004, 11:01 AM
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#2467 of 3720
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Cees Alons
Administrator
Location: Amsterdam, Holland
Join Date: Aug 1997
Local Time: 11:33 AM
Local Date: 10-07-2008
Posts: 18,180
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Note how I avoided that in my latest posts.
George are The Searchers.
Cees
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11-24-2004, 04:32 PM
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#2468 of 3720
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Member
Location: Ajijic, Jalisco, Mexíco
Join Date: May 2002
Local Time: 04:33 AM
Local Date: 10-07-2008
Posts: 11,410
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Not altogether Cees. In this part of the country we decline thusly:
I have a different opinion
You have a different opinion
He (she or it) has a different opinion
We have a different opinion
Y’All have a different opinion
They have a different opinion.
¡Time is not my master!
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11-24-2004, 04:43 PM
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#2469 of 3720
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Member
Location: Ajijic, Jalisco, Mexíco
Join Date: May 2002
Local Time: 04:33 AM
Local Date: 10-07-2008
Posts: 11,410
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You are a peasant. Always remember that.
1900 would not make my list of ten best or even 100 best movies. It might not make my five best by director Bernardo Bertolucci—but it is a film that should be seen, if one is willing to invest the 4+ hours, as there are parts that are magnificent, others that are poignant and Bertolucci retains his eye throughout.
An epic that comments on a changing Italy during the first half of the 20th century, but following the lives of two men, the movie is far too sprawling and loosely constructed to comment upon briefly, but there really are many rewards should you choose to watch the whole thing. It is just too bad that they are so disparate and, at times, unfocused.
¡Time is not my master!
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