Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club - Page 70

Seth Paxton · 07-05-2004, 01:35 PM

I also just watched The Tingler and agree with the points just made. We can see how it influenced and/or represents the idealogy of some filmmakers and why they would cite it. I don't have a problem with it really, and in fact I think I also prefer such diversity on the list.

Hey, I was complaining that there was too MUCH Bunuel on the list. While Tingler as a film is awkward and hamfisted in its attempt to set up the gimmick, it does exemplify the aspect of showmanship that has always existed with film presentation, from hand coloring to live acts (like Gertie the Dino) to sound, Cinemascope and even "real footage" films like Blair Witch.

A Star is Born
I'd never seen even the remake, so I was glad to finally get this one in. I sorta don't like the intrusiveness of long production numbers often found in backstage musicals which seem to only serve to showcase the talent, it slows the film down to me. However, Garland does shine and some of the moments are meant to address the current emotional state.

But when you have such a great story and Mason going so strong I just hate to see the film spend too much time away from that aspect. In many ways it is a great film, but it is not as taut as musicals like West Side Story, Sound of Music or Singin in the Rain.

It is interesting to see the application of the by then popular (thanks to Kelly) dream/reflection impressionism art sequence, but as good as it is you can't help but feel it to be 3rd generation following Red Shoes and then American in Paris/Singin in the Rain.

Anyway, that puts me to 181. Keeping the steady pace.

Seth Paxton · 07-05-2004, 01:54 PM

BTW, I fully agree with George in regard to Rosenbaum's list practices.

Quote:

We could see a 2012 S&S list with no Citizen Kane, or way down low, not because it's gone down in critical esteem, but because too many voters thought they could let other guys take care of that, and they'd get to vote for their pet favorites. I'm sure Ebert has his pet favorites too, but they don't get represented in the list because he's casting appropriate votes.

This is very true.

And Lew, even if voters could see each other's lists, what gives Rosenbaum the priviledge to pick his pet films while Ebert has to maintain the support for the "obvious" top films?

You can admire the increased awareness for avant-garde choices all you want, but does the end justify the means and does it justify him having the power to make such choices instead of some other reviewer? I personally do not think it does.

Maybe a better system would be to list a real top 10 and then perhaps something like 3 alternates or pet films, giving less weight to those choices but enough to let them make the list if they are mentioned enough.

I don't think the list should be "I really like Spielberg so I'm going to put Hook at #9 so people will appreciate an overlooked gem".

I think the explainations behind the Tingler votes are more legit in that the 2 filmmakers in question really do see the film and gimmick as resonating a core feature of what, to them, cinema should and can be. They are really saying "this is cinema at its best, campy or otherwise". It is reflected in the type of work they do.

Rosenbaum is not saying that. Instead he is saying "yeah, there are 10 films better but these are some films I want you to notice too". To me that is a different list, the underappreciated films list. I'd love to read it, see films from it and discuss it, but that doesn't mean I think it's appropriate for the S&S greatest films ever list.

Top 10 baseball players...well everyone else will put Ruth, Mays, Mantle, Gehrig, Cobb...so I'll put Dent, Dave Stewart, Three Finger Brown, and Dave Parker just to increase awareness of players who are overlooked by traditional greatest players lists.

I just think there would still be plenty of diversity due to taste from a straight-forward "these are the greatest films or most influential films to me".

Jim_K · 07-05-2004, 03:51 PM

Underground

Bizarre film about a black marketer, an underground munitions factory & it’s workers who believe that WWII has been raging for 50 years. Interesting concept but a little too weird for it’s own good.

Kusturica films seen
Underground **½
Time of the Gypsies **

The Mother and the Whore

Pseudo-intellectual twit convinces his live in lover to have a ménage a trio & gets more than he bargained for. French New Wave films are prone to wallow in pretension and this one is no exception.

232 down

Brent Hutto · 07-05-2004, 10:02 PM

Tonight we rewatched Nashville as part of our catching up on Robert Altman movies. [So far in recent weeks we've seen Gosford Park (third time), Popeye (umpteenth time), The Player (first time) and Images (first time). Coming up next are The Company and 3 Women, neither of which we've seen before.] Anyway, about Nashville...

It's been several years since we watched Nashville the first time and during the opening scenes I was struck by how appropriate it was to 2004. Someone could have written a movie as a comment on today's American culture with scenes like Haven Hamilton recording that corny spoken-word patriotic number. If Nashville didn't already exist it would be a stroke of genius to make it today but set it during the 1976 Bicentennial period. What a deeply wierd film.

glen_esq · 07-06-2004, 01:25 AM

The Leopard (Visconti, 1963)

One of the most beautiful films I've ever seen - cinematography, sets, costumes, score, all outstanding. Epic in scale, too, an amazing achievement in film.

I caught most of the English-dubbed, cut version on late night TV a couple of years ago and was very impressed with Lancaster's performance. Quite nuanced, yet he commands the screen as a prince of Italy. In the all-Italian version, Lancaster's dubbed performance sadly suffers, but I still prefer the Italian version - listening to everyone else NOT dubbed.

Lawrence of Arabia, and The Last Emperor, and maybe The King and I are some of the colour films that come to mind that have equalled this film's visuals, IME.

Very envious of anyone who's lucky enough to catch this on the big screen.

Visconti Seen/Rated
1. The Leopard ****
2. La Terra Trema ****
3. Death in Venice ***½
4. Senso ***
5. Rocco and His Brothers **½
6. Ossessione **
7. Ludwig *½

glen_esq · 07-06-2004, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Of all The Night of the Hunter surprised me the most. A truly remarkable blend of noir, religion and horror. Are there other films like this one?

Alex - two other films from the 50s that bizarrely and very entertainingly push the boundaries of their genres are Johnny Guitar, and Kiss Me Deadly.

Brook K · 07-06-2004, 01:53 AM

Congratulations on discovering Rosselini, Adam. Your review makes me want to see Open City again because on first viewing, it did not hit me or touch me in the same way as his other films that I've seen and love - Paisa, Stromboli and especially Germany Year Zero. You've given me some more things to think about the next time I watch it.

A Star Is Born is one of my favorite musicals. Garland's voice, Mason's performance and his struggle to overcome his character's inherent weaknesses - simply desperate to do the right thing, that huge Cinemascope frame...Can't wait to watch it on my new set.

AlexHL · 07-06-2004, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Of all The Night of the Hunter surprised me the most. A truly remarkable blend of noir, religion and horror. Are there other films like this one?

Alex - two other films from the 50s that bizarrely and very entertainingly push the boundaries of their genres are Johnny Guitar, and Kiss Me Deadly.

Glen, thanks very much! I immediately ordered Kiss Me Deadly. I've read about it before but I never got around to watching it. I couldn't find Johnny Guitar on DVD but I'll keep an eye out for it. Sounds like a great film as well. Thanks.

Jim_K · 07-06-2004, 07:29 AM

Shadows

Cassavetes uses improvisation in this examination of interracial relationships during the 50’s Beat-era New York. Groundbreaking for it’s time, unfortunately it’s also primitive, dated & poorly acted, which makes for a messy & unnatural film experience. Masturbatory film-making.

Cassavetes films seen
A Woman Under the Influence ****
Gloria **½
The Killing of a Chinese Bookie **
Shadows ½

Orlando

The Virginia Woolf novel gets the art-house treatment in this lavish & painfully strange feminist fantasy.

234 down

glen_esq · 07-06-2004, 11:26 AM

Alex - Johnny Guitar is only on video, OOP I believe. My library has a copy. I like it so much, I'm tempted to buy it used on video. TCM probably plays it every once in a while.

Weighing in on Rosenbaum, I don't have a problem with his approach. If you look at the top 10 films from the S & S lists in 1992, 82, 72, etc., the Citizen Kane's are well represented. All the one-vote films get pretty much marginalized. The diversity in the list though is tremendous, and I like all the art house, the experimental, and low budget third world films on this list, working through the 2-vote films on the list has been very rewarding.

The AFI top 100 films is a good list, but I think a little too safe, and rather stodgy.

Anyone working through Rosenbaum's alternate-to-the-AFI top 100 American films of all time? I've seen 53 so far. Hard to argue his choices of Steel Helmet or The Shooting are among the top 100 greatest. However, give me Panic in the Streets, Kiss Me Deadly, or The Lady from Shanghai anytime over big-bloated productions like Giant from the AFI top-100 list. Anyway, a fun list to pursue if you finished, or alongside the AFI top 100 films.