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[ Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club ]

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Old 05-30-2004, 08:12 PM   #1831 of 3722
Adam_S
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I'll get to Man with a Movie Camera in a couple weeks, wonder what I'll think of it.

Strike -

Filled with striking images (that was too easy) for me Strike did not have quite the resonance that Potemkin had, it felt as though ther was little at stake with the actual story, but the film is more than worth watching and definitely a great movie for the powerful representations of how the workers are treated--especially at the end. A stunning film, but I wasn't as affected as I was by Potemkin.

Adam


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Old 05-31-2004, 01:32 AM   #1832 of 3722
Brook K
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Strike! is my favorite of Eisenstein's films because it is the one (I haven't seen his Mexican film) that is about the lives of common, everyday people rather than a recreation of a historical event or biopic. For me it has his most moving scene:

A man and his son wrestle and play together. They are happy and content in each other's company.

Cut to later in the film after the strike has occurred. The father is out of work, collapsed on his bed. The child is hungry and banging his empty dish on the floor. The father in his exhaustion beats his son and then crumbles back to the bed full of self-loathing and depression.

A simple idea perhaps, but perfectly executed.



Yes, Captain Hammer's here, hair blowing in the breeze. The day needs my saving expertise! - Captain Hammer, Corporate Tool

2002 Sight & Sound Challenge: 313 Last Watched: Time of the Gypsies

Last 10 Films Watched:
Retribution - B / Frontiers - C
The Third Mother - B+ / The Mist - A
Diary of the Dead - B+ / The Invisible Man - B+
Inside - B / The Crazies - B
Lost Boys: The Tribe - C+ / The War of the Gargantuas - B


DVD BEAVER My Collection
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Old 05-31-2004, 11:38 AM   #1833 of 3722
Brent Hutto
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This weekend I watched Citizen Kane for the first time, bringing my number of films from the S&S list to 43. I also listened to most of the Roger Ebert commentary on the Criterion DVD as well as a few snippets from the Peter Bogdonovich commentary.

My question is this. Of the people who consider Citizen Kane one of the greatest movies ever, do they mostly like it as a movie or mostly admire it for its technical accomplishments or both?

Personally, I found the first 1/3 of the movie pretty tedious and annoying on my initial viewing. It picked up a bit after a while but never really threatened to break into my own list of favorite movies. Yet I was very taken by some of the imagary and the quality of the acting (although the acting was uniformly of a very "stagey" style that IMO doesn't always succeed on film).

That said, having watched it again while listening to the commentary track(s) I think I'm definitely joining the ranks of admirers of Citizen Kane. It's an endlessly fascinating piece of work and it's easy to see how a serious movie lover could watch it a dozen times or more. In the end, I probably can't get past my own lack of suitable context in which to placed the era being portrayed and appreciate it as a great movie. Plus there wasn't a single sympathetic or likable character in the whole story (not to say that a movies can't be great while not having any warm and fuzzy characters).
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Old 05-31-2004, 12:47 PM   #1834 of 3722
Brent Hutto
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I think my comment at the time (during his interview at the retirement home) was to the effect that the rest of the people in this movie were such bums that Leland actually seemed like a pretty nice guy. I guess that's a bit harsh.

Maybe I should say that the other characters were either annoying or bums or both while Jed Leland was a decent fellow, portrayed in a somewhat unflattering light. So point taken...
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Old 05-31-2004, 12:53 PM   #1835 of 3722
Seth Paxton
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Quote:
Perhaps it instead reflects the non-traditional lead characters....Belmondo looks mucho cool, but he isn't very bright and certainly isn't a tough guy
Well I sure disagree with this. The dude shoots a cop without a 2nd thought and then takes a guy out in one hit in a bathroom mugging. He is clearly very violent, though portrayed by scene choice as likeable (a good choice IMO). He is the classic noir lead, nowhere near the area of non-traditional.

And also
Quote:
He can't overcome his femme fatale.
Um, this IS FILM NOIR. That's not a contradiction, that's what the freaking name means, it's not femme-that-is-overcome. Double Indemnity, Sunset Blvd, how do those endings differ for the lead from Breathless? Breathless follows the noir formula to a tee in terms of story and characters. And the film is scored to match that as well.

George on Rope:
Quote:
and it's nothing more than "art for art's sake".
See, I disagree with that a bit. A main point for Hitch here was to cleary crank the tension by identifying the limited timeframe, as well as to identify the film's stage beginnings.

By keeping a constant POV (ie, no cuts) the audience truly becomes an active witness to the situation. Moving about and evesdropping, although unable to speak up or stop anything. The audience is made to be one of the conspirators basically.


I UNDERSTAND experimentation, but not all experiments work, except perhaps if you consider the learning aspect that come from failures.

Failure by experimentation is infinitely more admirable than failure using formula. But I feel like both directors undermined a lot of what was great in their films in the attempt to pursue a style that tended to go beyond its apparent goal. Raw, live acting in Wife UTI pushes on into "hey, its some actors trying to improv" because actors trying to riff off of each other DOES NOT sound the same as people talking. Perhaps this was due to intentional acting choices that were rehearsed, perhaps it was due to limited rehearsal, but in the end it looks the same.

People talking do have needs they want met via conversation, they may be addressing different issues from the other people, but they know where they themselves are coming from. Every converstation in Wife is awkward between people, no matter who is in the scene. In reality even one conversation like that will induce one of the participants to say, flat out, "what the hell are you talking about, what is going on here, or just spit it out".

The early spaghetti table scene is a perfect example where everyone is behaving like they don't really understand what they are doing there, and yet no one acknowledges it either. Falk would say "hey, I brought the boys home for spaghetti" or if the wife is awkwardly introducing herself to people that know her those people would recognize their own uncomfortableness and try to appease her or comment amongst themselves or something, anything, other than just acting weird themselves.

If I was told that this scene was full of people who were all truly insane, then I would believe it. In Cuckoo's Nest it works, here it doesn't.

And if the film was the wife's POV instead of "caught live neutral documentary" then this awkwardness and disconnection would also make sense.


Also, I think its fair to say that none of my comments come anywhere near "I just didn't like it, it sucks" range, so I take exception to that earlier statement.


Food for thought, who said the following:
Quote:
I feel it's tremendously satisfying for us to be able to use the cinematic art to achieve something of a mass emotion.
And, speaking to a "high art" filmmaker
Quote:
And that's what I'd like you to do - a picture that would gross millions of dollars throughout the world! It's an area of film-making in which it's more important for you to be pleased with the technique than with the content. It's the kind of picture in which the camera takes over. Of course, since critics are more concerned with the scenario, it won't necessarily get you the best notices, but you have to design your film just as Shakeseare did his plays - for an audience.
The point being that technique is critical; not in a personal sense but in the sense that it crosses content boundries in society and reaches mass audiences in an emotional way.

Many "high art" types go exactly the opposite direction, they use the technique to limit their audience, to so personalize the film that the reactions from most audiences is pure confusion, even if the story itself makes sense.


Anyway, the director that I quoted was
Spoiler:
Hitchcock in his Truffaut interviews, after addressing Pyscho.
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Old 05-31-2004, 04:49 PM   #1836 of 3722
george kaplan
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Quote:
Of the people who consider Citizen Kane one of the greatest movies ever, do they mostly like it as a movie or mostly admire it for its technical accomplishments or both?
Definitely both. First of all, if I didn't enjoy the story it wouldn't be in my collection no matter how technically admirable (hence, you won't find LOA, Raging Bull, etc. in my collection), but those technical accomplishments help make it #5 on my all-time list of great movies.

Quote:
A main point for Hitch here was to cleary crank the tension by identifying the limited timeframe, as well as to identify the film's stage beginnings.
You have a point, Seth, but I still think that 10 minute takes was still leaning towards the art for art's sake side of the continuum.


"Movies should be like amusement parks. People should go to them to have fun." - Billy Wilder

"Subtitles good. Hollywood bad." - Tarzan, Sight & Sound 2012 voter.

"My films are not slices of life, they are pieces of cake." - Alfred Hitchcock

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Old 05-31-2004, 06:37 PM   #1837 of 3722
george kaplan
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Please don't misunderstand me about Rope. I love Rope and think it works great. The long takes never distract from the movie (though they were apparently a pain for the actors, who were stressed not to blow their line 9 1/2 minutes into the take).

My point was that the idea of the long takes was an artistic one that was largely "art for art's sake", not that the resulting film was. Hitchcock was a master at doing very "artsy" things but never losing track of providing a great narrative and a great film.



"Movies should be like amusement parks. People should go to them to have fun." - Billy Wilder

"Subtitles good. Hollywood bad." - Tarzan, Sight & Sound 2012 voter.

"My films are not slices of life, they are pieces of cake." - Alfred Hitchcock

"My great humility is just one of the many reasons that I am vastly superior to everyone else." - Ramrod Clerk
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Old 06-01-2004, 02:52 PM   #1838 of 3722
Lew Crippen
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El, probably the best known film made in Mexico by Luis Buñuel is still, I think, reasonably obscure. On the surface, especially at the beginning, we are presented with a straightforward story: A man becomes enchanted with a girl who is about to marry another man, and persuades the girl to marry him instead. The man, however turns out to be obsessed with the possibility of his wife being unfaithful, which causes predictable problems. In the end, most things end badly for most of the characters.

But along the way, nothing is really as it seems. Buñuel uses this story to comment on the church, male privilege, and women’s place in society. In fact it is often hard to determine if the information presented to the audience is correct or a part of a dream.

In any case, a distributing film—one that stays with you.

This is one I’d like to see get a proper restoration treatment. I rented a VHS copy, with a very poor audio and video transfer. Still worth seeking out.



¡Time is not my master!
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