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[ Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club ]

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Old 05-25-2004, 07:15 AM   #1801 of 3720
Arman
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If it wasn't for the list you posted, Henry, you'd be approaching the coveted DOME level of maximum disagreement with me. (The DOME level being well above the Jim and George levels, heck, I'm even rooting for the Lakers this year

( Lakers ) [PTI]
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Old 05-25-2004, 09:26 AM   #1802 of 3720
Lew Crippen
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While I expect that you won’t much care for Intolerance, you need to watch the whole thing, especially to get the tempo and pacing towards the end of the movie.

Of course, there were technical restrictions of the day, but I think that to consider this film is good only in the context of the day is a bit like saying that Ulysses is only a great novel for its days James Joyce was just perfecting some of the writing techniques he used.

For me at least, the way the stories are interwoven and interrelated are done in a fashion that most filmmakers today (trying to tie together dissimilar themes and periods to be a unified whole) are unable to match.

That plus the incredible crane shots (of the day, to be sure) and Griffith’s mastery of shots with lots of extras. Great stuff.

I can’t remember very well what Brook and I wrote before, but I am sure that Seth disagreed. Of course disagree with our views—it is all good.



¡Time is not my master!
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Old 05-25-2004, 03:24 PM   #1803 of 3720
Dome Vongvises
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If it wasn't for the list you posted, Henry, you'd be approaching the coveted DOME level of maximum disagreement with me. (The DOME level being well above the Jim and George levels, heck, I'm even rooting for the Lakers this year


Nice to know I'm in a hierarchy somewhere.



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Old 05-26-2004, 03:40 AM   #1804 of 3720
Brook K
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Hope you like Stray Dog. Yet another reason that Kurosawa is my favorite director. I have it on order but it hasn't shipped yet.

I'll have to add Incredible Shrinking Man to my Netflix list. I have seen Forbidden Planet, but thought it was awful and had to force myself to finish it. Can't really remember why I thought it was so bad now. I seem to have deleted it from the memory banks.

I've finally started my Odd Man Out review, but I'm having trouble thinking of much to say about it. Ditto on McCabe and Mrs. Miller.

Don't have anything else scheduled for a couple more weeks unless I watch something I own.



Yes, Captain Hammer's here, hair blowing in the breeze. The day needs my saving expertise! - Captain Hammer, Corporate Tool

2002 Sight & Sound Challenge: 313 Last Watched: Time of the Gypsies

Last 10 Films Watched:
Diary of the Dead - B+ / The Invisible Man - B+
Inside - B / The Crazies - B
Lost Boys: The Tribe - C+ / The War of the Gargantuas - B
Thousands Cheer - C+ / Dead Man - C+
A Zed & Two Noughts - B+ / Leaves from Satan's Book - C


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Old 05-27-2004, 07:37 PM   #1805 of 3720
Seth Paxton
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Btw, I'm kidding Henry, well except about the movies...and the Lakers
Oh dear, this can't be right. Who in the hell got to you and signed over your soul? Tsk Tsk



Man, who doesn't love a really indulgent director more obsessed with his own stylization goals than consideration for his audience.

On that note I just finished 2 flicks that I half loved and half hated, and in both cases it was because they fell into an art for art's sake trap.

Breathless
I like the story behind the film and I like the stars. I even like some of the shots and some of the direction. But the intentionally abrupt editing became a thing unto itself. No surprise to find this in a Godard film, but of the new wave films I by far least enjoy where he's going with things.

I wish Trauffaut had directed this story since I understand he wrote it. On the fly, impromptu stuff is fine with me, but for chrissake, there is such a thing as post production, don't be afraid to smooth things out a bit rather than trying to intentionally make it harder.

For New Wave give me stuff like 400 Blows or the semi-NW film Cleo from 5 to 7. Plus, I'm more a fan of Neo-Realism which is something many NWers were trying to go against by making you intentionally aware that you were seeing a film, despite the location/improv shooting that sometimes gives the Neo-Realist look to NW films.

Unlike Eisenstien, Godard's editing did not convey to me a greater sense of the character or the environment. If anything his insistance on referencing H'wood style at the same time (music, mise-en-scene - esp film noir) undermined any of the edginess his choppy edits might have created. In the end I just mostly felt annoyed and uncomfortable, not unlike my feelings with Alphaville.

There's interesting stuff here, more than in most cases, but this is a great film that has had the shit kicked out of it by stylization.


Speaking of which...
A Woman Under the Influence
Features a couple of outstanding acting efforts and a touching story of the difficulties of dealing with a loved one going nuts. Unfortunately most of the good stuff in this film is left to tread water in the wash of improv shooting. The result is that half the time you get good stuff, but the other half is actors struggling to work off of each other and find the scene. That's great for rehearsal, or maybe you shoot some of it in hopes of catching magic, but at least by post it's time to identify the beats in each scene so the audience can appreciate the dramatic tension a little sooner than when the scene is basically over.

Most of the time you spend half the scene as lost as the actors, trying to understand just what the scene is about. What's at stake, what are the choices, who wants spaghetti and why?

Rowland's acting was dead-on based on knowing a person who went through something like that herself.

Oh, that is until the very end when I couldn't tell if Cassevetes was really trying to prop up a happy wrap-up on us or not. Ambigious is fine, but the film seemed to abruptly turn into a happy Hollywood finish at the end. Definitely counter to what the style of the film would lead you to expect.


My count goes to 169.

On deck - Magnificent Ambersons, World of Apu, Persona, Great Dictator, and Rome: Open City



Actually Lew, I prefer Intolerance, though I think he fails to really interweave the 4 stories. The scale and scope is remarkable, and the concept is great. And its one of the few films that he doesn't "kick/pet the dog" to stir your emotions.

My biggest beef here is that by 1918 the German filmmakers were kicking his butt in innovation, style and magic, but by the Americanized version (ie, German = a bad thing in 1917-18) it was all DW and Chaplin.

Anyway, I agree on digging in with the rest of Intolerance. I know I sure as hell have done it with some of these films.


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Old 05-27-2004, 07:41 PM   #1806 of 3720
Seth Paxton
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I'm less enamoured of his more realist movies like La Strada and La Dolce Vita,
I think we've found at least one source of our disagreement on film. These have been my 2 favorite Fellini films.

I'm not saying that films are better by touting realism, I just happen to like that neo-realist style. I can get into full-on H'wood spectacle and fantasy, heck my 2nd favorite style is German Expressionism after all. For some reason it is the blending of the two that kinda bugs me, it starts to slip into surrealism and I can only appreciate that as an art rather than truly enjoying it (though Discreet Charm did get me into it somewhat).
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Old 05-28-2004, 03:22 AM   #1807 of 3720
Brook K
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I love neo-realism too, as executed by Rosselini, Visconti, Olmi, Pontecorvo and De Sica, but Fellini isn't their equal in that realm, possibly because, except for Il Bidone he doesn't seem to be fully committed to it. He tried to take that style and make it fit his own and wasn't as successful as Rosselini or Olmi at doing so. Where he excels is a personal vision fueled by his unique personality and voice that he used to create a style unlike any one else's.

Godard and Cassavetes are two of cinemas greatest visionaries. They don't need to conform to commonplace expectations of what editing or acting "should" be out of your Bordwell. Their films are vital, living artwork that have moved many, many filmgoers. Art for art's sake? Why, because after years of ingesting cinema they saw a different way of doing things? They aren't interested in hiding behind their storytelling. Their personal thoughts and emotions are placed onscreen. The style is a statement all its own. These are men with something to say about life and they do so using their superb command of the medium.

Using your Truffaut example, his best films are those in which he injects himself, his feelings, emotions, personality -- The Doinel films, The Wild Child, The Man Who Loved Women, too often he is content to make competent Hitchcock homages or adapt books in a rather conventional manner.

It is cinema's unique voices I crave and without directors like Godard and Cassavetes the film world would be a much blander, and less interesting place.



Yes, Captain Hammer's here, hair blowing in the breeze. The day needs my saving expertise! - Captain Hammer, Corporate Tool

2002 Sight & Sound Challenge: 313 Last Watched: Time of the Gypsies

Last 10 Films Watched:
Diary of the Dead - B+ / The Invisible Man - B+
Inside - B / The Crazies - B
Lost Boys: The Tribe - C+ / The War of the Gargantuas - B
Thousands Cheer - C+ / Dead Man - C+
A Zed & Two Noughts - B+ / Leaves from Satan's Book - C


DVD BEAVER My Collection
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Old 05-28-2004, 06:25 AM   #1808 of 3720
Brent Hutto
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I just discovered this thread a few days ago and decided to count up the movies I've seen. I believe the count is 41 plus several others that I may have seen a long time ago but don't recall anything about. Anyway, on the very day I sent a PM asking to join the group I got home and there was a batch of DVDs from Amazon including...

#157 In the Mood for Love (my 42nd)

This is the first Wong Kar-Wai movie that I've seen and I have a mixed response. First off, it is a beautiful, beautiful film. The photography, music, editing and locations are just exquisite. Not to mention the two gorgeous lead actors. Maybe it was reading the subtitles or maybe it was just my mood on the night we watched it but it seemed like a lot of the emotional content of the movie was just out of my grasp. Having later read some reviews and commentaries it seems the consensus view is that the point of view is supposed to be fragmented memories or maybe even a dream, probably belonging to Tony Leung's character. Frankly, I didn't get that impression when I was watching.

The one thing that came across totally clearly to me was the sense of place and time. I'll take the Wong's word that the scene was Hong Kong's Shanghai expatriate community in 1962 but whether that is accurate or not he certainly gives this viewer a feeling of dislocation as though I've stepped into a time machine and arrived somewhere completely unfamilar (to this westerner). I love that feeling of wonder as if experiencing an exotic journey but perhaps it is a part of the reason that the movie seemed beyond my emotional grasp.
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Old 05-28-2004, 07:04 AM   #