Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club - Page 38

Brook K · 11-03-2003, 07:20 AM

I thought Once Upon A Time was two of the greatest opening scenes in the history of Westerns followed by a movie that never quite measures up. Seems like it would grind to a halt every time it cut back to the train car for another repetitive scene of Morton being foiled and angry. But given the price and the package Paramount put together for the DVD, I went ahead and ordered it so I'll be giving it another chance.

Martin, I envy your getting to see Sansho. Mizoguchi's Ugetsu is one of my favorites, but the only other Mizoguchi film I've had the chance to see was his version of The 47 Ronin.

Dome, dubbing became a staple of Italian cinema. It was used out of necessity in the post-war days of neo-realism when there was no money for retakes or the kinds of setups needed to record sound on location and it simply became the working habit of virtually all the Italian directors. Later directors like Leone and Dario Argento, who probably could have shot synch sound, simply chose to dub because that was the system they were trained in. I don't think it was until the 80's that dubbing fell out of use. (except maybe with Visconti, I haven't seen enough of his films to know, but he may have halted sooner. I'm not sure if his Senso from '56 is dubbed or not. I'd have to watch it again.)

MartinTeller · 11-03-2003, 10:45 AM

Martin, I envy your getting to see Sansho. Mizoguchi's Ugetsu is one of my favorites, but the only other Mizoguchi film I've had the chance to see was his version of The 47 Ronin.

I picked up the VHS off the library shelf. I didn't know it was a S&S selection at the time, it just looked good.

Seth Paxton · 11-03-2003, 12:18 PM

One thing any cinephile should keep in mind is that it is wrong to put all the blame on the audience when the reaction to "greatness" is less than enthusiastic.

Certainly a viewer should have some understanding of film, film culture, and the world culture in which the film came to life, but it would be a mistake to ignore the fact that Tarkovsky does fail to engage audiences as well as other directors.

As much as there may be to his films to admire, as much as we may warm to him on repeat viewings, in some ways he fails that basic test of "did this film grab me, or did I have to go get it". It can be fun to dig into a film and generally that can enhance our appreciation of the film, perhaps to the point of making us lose sight of how the film initially plays, but it doesn't make it wrong when people have a cooler reaction upon their first sitting.

In fact I consider it a significant warning sign that the film has flaws.

We sometimes debate over a person's condition when viewing a film. Distractions such as being tired, needing to use the bathroom, people talking, etc can negatively affect the viewing. However, ENGAGING films are more able to make us ignore or forget those distractions. When a film really grabs you and you fall totally into it, a lot of that background noise falls aside.

Obviously there are limits to this, as well as exceptions. Many good films put me to sleep because of the comfort they make me feel, particularly the more charming, lighthearted silver screen gems. But given Pulp Fiction, Caddyshack, or Casablanca versus Solaris I would certainly be able to hold off on the bathroom break or stay up a bit longer while watching the latter 3 versus watching 5 minutes from the window of a car on the highway.

I've come to realize that the films I like do far more to define who I am as a person than my liking them does to define them as great films.

Dome Vongvises · 11-03-2003, 01:43 PM

Well, I got three tests coming up and three lab reports. See you in Thanksgiving.

Adam_S · 11-03-2003, 08:26 PM

La Passion de Jeanne d'Arc (The Passion of Joan of Arc) -

This is one of the best movies ever made. What an incredible, stunning impact. I am absolutely floored and overwhelmed. What an experience. Wow, just absolutely wow!

Adam

Simon_Lepine · 11-03-2003, 09:48 PM

Glad you liked The Passion Adam

My girlfriend doesn't like to watch it because it affects her too much, she was freaking out just looking at the Criterion cover after I made her watch the movie

Walter Kittel · 11-03-2003, 11:32 PM

Quote:

I've come to realize that the films I like do far more to define who I am as a person than my liking them does to define them as great films.

I simply could not agree more with that statement. I hesitate to say more - but suffice to say I wish that there was more objective, or perhaps broader, consideration in some of the critiques I read on the HTF.

- Walter.

Adam_S · 11-03-2003, 11:46 PM

Bravo Seth, I agree with everything you said.

I also realized I had accidently repeated two films in my newly seen list that I had already seen, so Passion of Joan of Arc is really only number 99 for me. :p

I hope to complete the 30s challenge by november 17th and the AFI movies list by the end of the year. My biggest focus will then be this list, and I hope to scratch at least 100 off this list in 2004

Adam

george kaplan · 11-04-2003, 06:11 AM

Seth,

I agree to a point, but also disagree. Watching films is all about perception and one's interaction with the film. You can't objectively view a film without your perception of it influencing you. So, while it's true that one's opinion about a film says a lot about that person, it also says a lot about that film, and mostly it says a lot about the interaction of that film with that person.

So for me, greatness of a film isn't anything you could ever do objectively, it's a subjective thing that will be different for each person, and so I do not apologize one bit for being subjective in my evaluation of certain films as great or not great, since that judgment is always going to be a subjective one.

john davies · 11-04-2003, 06:31 AM

This is a very useful exercise. If only more cinemagoers were aware of world's hidden treasures. After all, international painters don't suffer in this way. Imagine if Rembrandt, Picasso, Van Gogh, Vermeer, Da Vinci and others had been ignored as non-Anglophone!

It was John Kobal's book Top 100 Movies, with international critics' top 10 lists (in the late 80's) that got me hooked on seeing as many great classics of world cinema as poss. Not always easy, given the frustrating inaccessibility in Britain, as elsewhere. So, still 11 to go of S&S list.

Glad to hear from Martin that libraries can make a difference. I had trouble persuading the local library to stock "foreign" films, but the ones i suggested have now easily repaid their cost- Sansho the Bailiff (my favourite film) being one of them. Mizoguchi had 3 in the S&S top 100 despite being terribly neglected in Britain and USA, and virtually ignored by the American directors polled (presumably through unfamiliarity?). His Story of the Late Chrysanthemums is a brilliant work, finally getting some recognition. Tales of the Taira Clan also deserves to be better known.